Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#501

Post by ghaff » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #446

Loughla wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the same. You can control hidden things from the touch screen (like light length when opening the door for example) but most cars still have tactile nobs for everything outside of radio/bluetooth/media. There are some cars that have touchscreen for essential things like climate control, but those are absolutely in the minority.

Thing is, those cars with touch screen climate controls will let you set a temperature target much like your home thermostat. Once you figure out the right temperature, you don't really ever have to change it. I haven't changed the temperature in my car for months. I'll probably adjust it as summer turns to fall but it will be a one or two degree change one time and then I won't touch it again unless my kid drove the…

My newish car does have buttons to control the temperature and fan. But, yeah, I don't really change it. I do use defroster settings in the winter.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#502

Post by ravenstine » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #322

sergiosgc wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European, where we drive mostly stick, it's funny to observe the newfound US love for stick shifts. It's funny because it happened almost exactly when automatics became good! Good dual clutch gearboxes are amazing, but even "classic" ones like BMW's ZF6 or ZF8 are really close. ZF8 is so good BMW uses it in the M3, instead of a dual clutch. With these options, I'd never go back to stick shift. This after having…

Manuals suck in traffic. Americans sit in a lot of traffic. And I say this as somebody who loves manuals (I’m an amateur race car driver).

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't knock those who love driving manual. Part of why I like riding my motorcycle is that it's a manual.

But in LA traffic, I'd rather drive an automatic so I can put my brain into "autopilot" while playing an audiobook rather than have to constantly be shifting by hand. It irks me how so many manual-lovers have this superiority complex over people who just want a car that will get them from A to B. Have fun with your manuals, but don't speak as if I'm an imbecile because I don't think driving manual is fun in heavy traffic.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#503

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #481

dylan604 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and most people like a screen for at least GPS personal anecdotes, but the vast majority of me being a passenger to someone else's driving, they all used their mobile device for GPS. even the couple of cars i owned that had a nav system, the GPS came from the mobile device. it required their app to be installed to input the destination, making the internal unit just a second screen for your mobile.

From my experience with two cars with factory nav, it's nice because it will show the next instructions in the the dash area, so when you're looking down to check speed you also get that. And, one of my cars has an option to show the next several instructions (Ford Sync2, which everybody hates because the UI is really slow, and kind of ugly). On the other hand, pay to play for data updates sucks. And most importantly…

>sometimes the phone gets tired of listening to GPS.

I'm sorry, what?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#504

Post by cduzz » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

foxyv wrote: post #474

cduzz wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really seen the issue with "manual in traffic" -- there's almost always a gear or two that allow you to go a the speed of traffic without tons of shifting. Stop and go? 2nd probably goes from "creep" to "moderate speed" Anyhow, electric cars are better all around -- at least those with "one pedal driving" where the speed pedal goes all the way to zero or nearly zero. My dislike of automatics is the indeter…

Ahh sweet summer child. Traffic that has a speed isn't really traffic in my book. It isn't really traffic until you spend more time stopped than moving. Joking aside, the worst traffic is when you stop every 4 seconds and then creep forward ten feet before stopping again. If I wasn't planning to go car-less I think I would buy an electric car for that nonsense.

Oh, I live in metro boston and before that lived in the slurm of southern california, and have not at any time owned a car with an automatic transmission... The workload from gear shifting is more than zero, but not (for me) oppressively so.

Even "stop and go" traffic eventually has some average speed and sometimes it is low enough that you've got to clutch in to come to a full stop and clutch out to go faster; modern engine management's pretty good at keeping the motor from stalling. Probably I annoy people by letting the lead in front of me get to be a couple car lengths before I decide to go, but that's on them... we'll all get there eventually.

Electric cars are the best in that you're basically always in first gear, the redline is basically infinite, and the car doesn't stall when the engine's not moving, so you don't need a clutch.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#505

Post by phpisthebest » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

InitialLastName wrote: post #487

phpisthebest wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 12 states require routine safety inspections.

The civilized world gets smaller by the day...

That depends on what you mean by Civilized.

I 100% oppose these inspections, and fully supported the initiative to remove them from my state.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#506

Post by ravenstine » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

fuzzyset wrote: post #324

charles_f wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to privacy data handling, the term "collecting" is a very specific term that means they are directly collecting it from you, so, unless they use the term in a non standard way, that means they supposedly collect your genetic material and sexual preferences _from you_. Which, erk, but also, how?

Sexual preference and genetic material are very different from sexual activity and genetic data . These privacy polices are always very broad (not saying this is a good thing). The multitude of microphones in cars can easily accidentally (or purposefully) record sex acts. A camera to detect driver awareness (for auto cruise or sleep alarms) can detect your eye color, which could be construed as genetic data. Idk if a…

Plus we know that the likes of Tesla and Ring/Amazon have no qualms about having a good laugh watching your camera footage until they get caught with their pants down (perhaps literally in some cases).

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#507

Post by gonehome » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

HumblyTossed wrote: post #477

gonehome wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet most people look at the tactile buttons when adjusting them, to see the temperature, fanspeed, etc. and that the difference between this and swiping on the tesla display isn't an important difference.

I bet they don't. Muscle memory is a thing. Do you look down at your blinker lever to change it? How about your wipers? If you have controls on your steering wheel, do you look at those to press them? I bet not.

The stuff on the steering wheel no, but the stuff on the dash (radio, aircon, fan, etc.) I did look at when I had tactile controls (this is primarily the stuff that's moved to the touchscreen, the wheel controls/levers let you do tactile actions without looking for more common stuff).

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#508

Post by ravenstine » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

hashtag-til wrote: post #3

I think it will be a good differentiation factor in a few years, that a brand comes up with an offline car, i.e. a car that you just refuel/charge and drive - no telemetry/connected features involved. It may be a niche thing in future, but certainly something that would be appealing to me as a consumer.

Won't happen. Not enough people care. Convenience wins every time.

The only viable option is to get a used dumbcar and rip out the existing head unit.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#509

Post by PrimeMcFly » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

throw3747874747 wrote: post #80

nhance wrote: post #2

I've got a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I've been searching for where the sim card is for the built in cellular modem so I can rip it out. It astounds me that there aren't more people interested in cutting off the constant telemetry and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the car refuses to operate correctly when I do figure out where it's at and pull it.

I am pretty sure that is (or soon will be) illegal in EU. Car needs to be able to call emergency, if accident is detected.

What about the the numerous older cars that don't have that functionality?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#510

Post by I_Am_Nous » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

cduzz wrote: post #413

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this was always a key point from people who drove automatics but claimed to like manuals. i daily drove a manual in some of the worst traffic the US has to offer. but so what, guess what else sucks in traffic? Automatics!! when you're stuck in traffic, everything sucks, so you might as well drive something thats enjoyable the rest of the time.

I've never really seen the issue with "manual in traffic" -- there's almost always a gear or two that allow you to go a the speed of traffic without tons of shifting. Stop and go? 2nd probably goes from "creep" to "moderate speed" Anyhow, electric cars are better all around -- at least those with "one pedal driving" where the speed pedal goes all the way to zero or nearly zero. My dislike of automatics is the indeter…

I completely agree with you regarding the power lag on automatics. Currently I'm driving a Jeep Renegade with a 9 speed automatic transmission, and I live in a really hilly area. The transmission needs to downshift CONSTANTLY because it's tuned to try to cruise the highway at 1500 RPM to maximize fuel efficiency.

If I'm running the air conditioner, it steals enough power that it has to downshift an extra time. It's bad enough that the constant shifting makes my son carsick. Luckily, it has a manual mode I can use to just drop it into 5th gear and it has the torque to smoothly climb the hills on cruise control that way, eliminating my son's carsickness.