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Chemists develop new way to split water

uni-muenster.de

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Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#11

Post by dylan604 »

conanite wrote: post #8
dylan604 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great for backpacking as it weighs much less and takes up less space in your pack. All you have to do is add water, shake it up, and your drink is ready in less than 15 seconds. Maybe the astronauts can take advantage too.

you laugh but i've always thought it would be great to carry a kilo of pure hydrogen in my backpack - just burn it to obtain like 5 litres of water ... I mean why are we carrying all that oxygen in our backpacks when he atmosphere has a plentiful supply of it...

Have you ever actually seen a canister of hydrogen? Specifically, have you ever felt the weight of that canister? I'd rather just carry the 8lbs of a gallon of water. At least it gets lighter as the water is depleted

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#12

Post by whatshisface »

dylan604 wrote: post #11
conanite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you laugh but i've always thought it would be great to carry a kilo of pure hydrogen in my backpack - just burn it to obtain like 5 litres of water ... I mean why are we carrying all that oxygen in our backpacks when he atmosphere has a plentiful supply of it...

Have you ever actually seen a canister of hydrogen? Specifically, have you ever felt the weight of that canister? I'd rather just carry the 8lbs of a gallon of water. At least it gets lighter as the water is depleted

Carbon is lighter than oxygen, so their plan would work if they brought fully saturated hydrocarbons including ones so long-chain that they were solid at room temperature.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#13

Post by dylan604 »

whatshisface wrote: post #12
dylan604 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually seen a canister of hydrogen? Specifically, have you ever felt the weight of that canister? I'd rather just carry the 8lbs of a gallon of water. At least it gets lighter as the water is depleted

Carbon is lighter than oxygen, so their plan would work if they brought fully saturated hydrocarbons including ones so long-chain that they were solid at room temperature.

You just described coal. So, you're suggesting taking coal on a backpacking trip along with a very heavy canister of hydrogen. To make water? Anything else you want to do to help destroy the environment you're backpacking through?

You realize this whole thread started with the concept of dehydrated water, right?

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#14

Post by Filligree »

kiloDalton wrote: post #10
wanderlust2021 wrote: post #3

How much of a progress is this? Anyone here that can add insights?

The paper isn't about splitting water to yield hydrogen and oxygen gas which would be useful for energy applications. It's about a new way to make radical hydrogen (1 protein plus 1 electron) which is useful for synthesizing some organic compounds. It will be helpful for synthetic chemists and will make it easier to explore hydrogen radical chemistry. It may replace some processes that currently require transition me…

> 1 protein plus 1 electron

Assuming that was autocorrupt. :)

But 1+1... isn't that just normal hydrogen? Is the point that it's atomic, not H2?

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#15

Post by whatshisface »

dylan604 wrote: post #13
whatshisface wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon is lighter than oxygen, so their plan would work if they brought fully saturated hydrocarbons including ones so long-chain that they were solid at room temperature.

You just described coal. So, you're suggesting taking coal on a backpacking trip along with a very heavy canister of hydrogen. To make water? Anything else you want to do to help destroy the environment you're backpacking through? You realize this whole thread started with the concept of dehydrated water, right?

Saturated hydrocarbons contain hydrogen. That is what the carbon is saturated with. Coal is not saturated.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#16

Post by Filligree »

dylan604 wrote: post #11
conanite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you laugh but i've always thought it would be great to carry a kilo of pure hydrogen in my backpack - just burn it to obtain like 5 litres of water ... I mean why are we carrying all that oxygen in our backpacks when he atmosphere has a plentiful supply of it...

Have you ever actually seen a canister of hydrogen? Specifically, have you ever felt the weight of that canister? I'd rather just carry the 8lbs of a gallon of water. At least it gets lighter as the water is depleted

Well, the same amount of hydrogen (as in 1kg of water) in the form of methane only weighs ~450g though. And methane, conveniently, turns into H2O when burned.

So in principle you could carry a bottle of methane and burn that to get water. ;-)

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#17

Post by solardev »

conanite wrote: post #8
dylan604 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great for backpacking as it weighs much less and takes up less space in your pack. All you have to do is add water, shake it up, and your drink is ready in less than 15 seconds. Maybe the astronauts can take advantage too.

you laugh but i've always thought it would be great to carry a kilo of pure hydrogen in my backpack - just burn it to obtain like 5 litres of water ... I mean why are we carrying all that oxygen in our backpacks when he atmosphere has a plentiful supply of it...

Maybe we need mini packblimps that can not only carry fuel, but part of the pack, the dog, the kid, etc. It could have AI assisted propeller machetes to hack away at wayward branches, geofenced to protect endangered flora of course.

Then if you add some condensing coils and a transparent roof, you could also just leave the backpacking food in there and it'll slowly get moist and solar cook. After a twelve hour hike you'd get lukewarm edible mud, mmm.

Explosions are a minor risk, but if you can make water out of the hydrogen anyway, surely you can put out any resultant wildfires.

Cyberpunk Smokey would be proud.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#18

Post by dylan604 »

Filligree wrote: post #16
dylan604 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually seen a canister of hydrogen? Specifically, have you ever felt the weight of that canister? I'd rather just carry the 8lbs of a gallon of water. At least it gets lighter as the water is depleted

Well, the same amount of hydrogen (as in 1kg of water) in the form of methane only weighs ~450g though. And methane, conveniently, turns into H2O when burned. So in principle you could carry a bottle of methane and burn that to get water. ;-)

roughly half the weight, plus the weight of the burner equipment. again, that weight still remains even after the supply of fuel to make water is depleted. a just of water gets lighter. by the end of the hike, this is very much a nice quality

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#19

Post by fakedang »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #7

Couple of quotes from the OP: "To produce hydrogen, water (H2O) can be converted into hydrogen gas (H2) by means of a series of chemical processes. However, as water molecules are very stable, splitting them into hydrogen and oxygen presents a big challenge to chemists. For it to succeed at all, the water first has to be activated using a catalyst – then it reacts more easily. A team of researchers led by Prof. Armid…

On a tangential note, how do you pronounce the second researcher's name? Zhang as to my knowledge is pronounced with a distinct "Jha" aspirated sound, correct?

Back to the article though, from what I understand, the alkenes and arenes merely act as the catalyst for the reactions, so the article calling them the equivalent of hydrogenation reactions seems incorrect. Perhaps, a more equivalent term would be temporary hydrogenation.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#20

Post by Someone »

Filligree wrote: post #14
kiloDalton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper isn't about splitting water to yield hydrogen and oxygen gas which would be useful for energy applications. It's about a new way to make radical hydrogen (1 protein plus 1 electron) which is useful for synthesizing some organic compounds. It will be helpful for synthetic chemists and will make it easier to explore hydrogen radical chemistry. It may replace some processes that currently require transition me…

> 1 protein plus 1 electron Assuming that was autocorrupt. :) But 1+1... isn't that just normal hydrogen? Is the point that it's atomic, not H2?

Indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_(chemistry)

“In chemistry, a radical, also known as a free radical, is an atom, molecule, or ion that has at least one unpaired valence electron. With some exceptions, these unpaired electrons make radicals highly chemically reactive. Many radicals spontaneously dimerize. Most organic radicals have short lifetimes.”

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