Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business • Hacker News Board

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#51

Post by ap22213 » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 3:44 PM UTC

dreamling wrote: post #46

I think the whole topic is silly. If your potential employer asked you for passwords to your bank accounts, stock managers or asked you to hand over your journals, why would you comply? I know the job market is still tough out there for people, but why would you want to work for a company that won't trust you based on your face to face interview, the documents you submit, your references and a due diligence web searc…

I agree, the topic _is_ silly, because most US workers are 'at-will' and can be fired at any time, for any reason. Many people don't know this or don't believe this. Unless you re under specific contract, or live in a few states with employment rights, your boss may fire you just because they didn't like how you type on the keyboard.

Recently, I was watching an episode of Mad Men with a friend, and one of the characters abruptly fired one of their employees. My fried was aghast and was glad that 'that behavior couldn't happen today.' Well - it can and does happen today.

Last year I worked for a start-up owned by a friend. Before coming on-board, I had agreed verbally on an equity sharing deal. I didn't put anything in writing because I trusted the guy; I knew him for years. The red flag was that he kept waiting for a certain 'favorable legislation to be enacted' before splitting up the corporation. Well, when business started picking up, I reminded him emphatically about the equity, and then I was abruptly fired. Naively, I was shocked that it could happen like that. But, every attorney I called said I was out of luck.

Anyway, the point is that employers can probably ask you to do anything they want, that isn't explicitly denied by law. So, it makes sense that they may fire you for not sharing passwords.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#52

Post by jiggy2011 » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 3:50 PM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #49

jiggy2011 wrote: post #4

I wonder what the implications would be if facebook introduced a feature that allowed a potential employer to "buy" temporary access to a potential employees facebook data? For example you apply for a job somewhere and the next time you log into facebook you get a message that reads something like. "InitTech PLC has requested read only access to your account for 48 hours, please be aware that compliance with this is…

I would hope the US has similar privacy laws to Canada where a company that is solely responsible and has access to your personal data is required by law to use that data only in the ways you have explicitly permitted. If the company wishes to provide your data to a 3rd party or use it in some other means than what you agreed to they're liable for lawsuit and punishment. I mean, sure, facebook could just update priva…

What I assumed was that it would still ask permission from the user before sharing the data, but it might be the case that you are disqualified from a job opportunity if you do not share.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#53

Post by lambersley » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 3:50 PM UTC

dripton wrote: post #33

Zikes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for protected information is illegal, whether the applicant consents to give it or not.

Can you cite the law?

In Canada, there are two provisions of law that are common in many "manager 101" training courses that I can recall:

The Employment Equity Act is aimed at protecting women, visible minorities, people with disabilities and Aboriginals.

"5. Every employer shall implement employment equity by

(a) identifying and eliminating employment barriers against persons in designated groups that result from the employer’s employment systems, policies and practices that are not authorized by law" (1)

The Canadian Human Rights Act is aimed at preventing discrimination "practices based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation,marital status, family status, disability orconviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted."

"7. It is a discriminatory practice, directly or indirectly,

(b) in the course of employment, to differentiate adversely in relation to an employee,on a prohibited ground of discrimination." (2)

I'm no lawyer but I would tread lightly on "differentiating" by any of these statuses.

(1) http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-5.401/page-3.html#...

(2) http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/H-6.pdf

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#54

Post by nirvana » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 3:51 PM UTC

mirsadm wrote: post #27

This is a great "I don't want to work here" filter. If I was asked for my password during an interview I would probably leave. I can easily afford to do that because there is such a demand for software engineers (and I'm not even looking!). Unfortunately for others who aren't in the same position I think it is absolutely disgraceful for some stranger to go through your personal stuff just to get a job.

I agree with you. The thing I'm debating is what is the appropriate further action you should take before you leave.

I once left an interview because the NDA they wanted me to sign gave them rights to all of my work for the next 6 months, and the right to audit me at any day or time by searching my house!

I told the HR person I wasn't willing to sign that, and why, that it would prevent me working anywhere if I didn't get that particular job, and she reacted as if I was being a prima donna.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#55

Post by jiggy2011 » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 4:03 PM UTC

lambersley wrote: post #29

lukejduncan wrote: post #5

Is this really becoming common? I agree that it's absolutely wrong, but, every headline I've seen gives the impression this is becoming a common practice. I've never heard of it actually happening anywhere but the few cases cited in the articles.

I've never asked a candidate for their password, that to me is ludicrous. I do however (~90% of time) 'google' the person by "name" and location. I understand that a candidate's personal life can be very different from their professional life, but the two are connected by a single thread called 'self'. I really could care less about political affiliations, religious beliefs, sexual orientation and the like. However,…

Candidates, on the other hand, need to ensure their online presence is something they are proud of (and happy to defend) if seen by friends, parents, clerics and potential employers, IMHO.

The problem is that this is difficult, especially for younger people.

I've had various online aliases over the years, most of which have been abandoned because they no longer reflect me at all.

Let's say you were 16-18 and naive and got roped into some extreme political or religious cult group (this didn't happen to me btw). You might post all kinds of things and at the time you would probably be totally convinced that these were things you would be happy to share forever.

Basically, we need to tell kids "don't post anything online under your real name unless you would be happy to tattoo it onto your forehead"

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#56

Post by goostavos » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 4:12 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #51

dreamling wrote: post #46

I think the whole topic is silly. If your potential employer asked you for passwords to your bank accounts, stock managers or asked you to hand over your journals, why would you comply? I know the job market is still tough out there for people, but why would you want to work for a company that won't trust you based on your face to face interview, the documents you submit, your references and a due diligence web searc…

I agree, the topic _is_ silly, because most US workers are 'at-will' and can be fired at any time, for any reason. Many people don't know this or don't believe this. Unless you re under specific contract, or live in a few states with employment rights, your boss may fire you just because they didn't like how you type on the keyboard. Recently, I was watching an episode of Mad Men with a friend, and one of the charact…

How serious is this Facebook business? I personally do not have one, in this day, is this an actual barrier to getting a job? Not being part of a social website?

Either way, employers asking for a password to anything feels insanely slimy.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#57

Post by pasbesoin » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 4:39 PM UTC

As I saw commented elsewhere, giving up your password / access to another person appears to be a pretty clear violation of Facebook's TOS (terms of service). So, my first response might be to ask whether they are soliciting me to breach a legal contract that I've entered. (I'll leave my thoughts on the actual legality or interpretation and reasonableness of claimed legality on the part of the service provider, here Facebook, as a separate question for another time.) At a minimum, this might be enough to ensure e.g. that the unemployment agency decides in my favor with respect to unemployment insurance, if things happen to go that way.

I also recall another comment where someone pointed out that their friends on Facebook have an expectation of privacy in their own communications and that s/he will not compromise (betray) that expectation. That seems to me to be a pretty clear ethical argument. As a reasonable person, I would have a hard time challenging the ethics of such a response.

Finally, personally, I agree with other comments here, that the access and information is none of their business.

What perhaps some (not all) in the preponderance of relatively privileged professions represented on HN may not fully realize, is that for many people in the workforce there is effectively little or no choice. Jobs -- especially with decent pay and benefits -- are hard to come by, and many do not have the financial means to risk an episode or continuance of unemployment.

For the sake of those people, as well as ourselves, we need to band together in opposition to this behavior. Even for ourselves, if the practice becomes commonplace, that sets a precedent that may subsequently box us in.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#58

Post by eru » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 4:56 PM UTC

Zikes wrote: post #31

jonnathanson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along those lines, one trend I've noticed quite a bit lately is not using one's full, real name as one's Facebook handle. For instance, someone named John Smith might rename his FB profile "Johnny S." This tactic allows our hypothetical Mr. Smith to dodge search engine results for his full name. It wouldn't protect him from having to hand over his password, but at least it keeps all those photos of his brandishing re…

Assuming a person couldn't be found via search results they could easily claim they don't have any Facebook account at all, dodging the need for a dummy profile altogether.

A dummy profile might still be required, because of stupid policies. Like you now often have to give a dummy phone number even if you don't have a real one, because it's a required field in forms.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#59

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 5:11 PM UTC

warpspeed wrote: post #24

brown9-2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already sue for such harassment/discrimination. I just don't see why we need a special law regarding Facebook here if the underlying discrimination possible is already illegal.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that this practice is so wide-spread that there's enough grey area for hiring managers to get away with it, so the current laws aren't enough. Internet social networking is such a new and world-changing concept that I believe new laws are necessary to specifically address these issues.

As far as I can tell, the practice is not wide spread at all. Hypothetical talk about it is wide spread.

This article cites the exact same incident that every article I've read cites. Maybe when at least a single new incident is reported since the last time this made headlines we can talk about it being wide spread.

Re: Your Facebook password should be none of your boss' business

#60

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 5:14 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #42

MRonney wrote: post #38

I worked at a social media marketing agency for a few months, when I went out of town I gave my manager my login information because my clients would sometimes direct message me instead of email (annoying). A few weeks after returning, some of my new messages would already appear open, and Facebook asked me if I logged into my account from a PC ( NEVER!!) at a different location than normal ( near my managers house).…

You gave them access to your account, and were surprised they used it?

I think the expectation was that the company would stop checking the account after his return, but failing to change your password was a big mistake.