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Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

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Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#261

Post by jibe »

5555624 wrote: post #218
jibe wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is illegal to tamper with any part of the emissions control system on your car. Can you cite the law? I know the EPA has civilly pursues companies that make products that bypass emission controls. But haven’t seen or heard anything that goes as fat as you suggest. E.g.: https://www.dinancars.com/products/software-tuning/engine-tu... This allows you to change the engine programming on a BMW. They do note it is not…

"It is a crime to knowingly falsify, tamper with, render inaccurate, or fail to install any "monitoring device or method" required under the Clean Air Act, including a vehicle’s on-board diagnostic system. Clean Air Act section 113(c)(2)(C)." https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/ta...

EPA defines tampering here:

Tampering. You may not remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in engines/equipment in compliance with the regulations prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/part-1068/section-1068...

It seems primarily about bypassing or disabling emission controls, not user controlled fuel mapping, or mods like putting in a performance air filter or exhaust. But EPA does consider a flex fuel conversion tampering.

https://afdc.energy.gov/bulletins/technology_bulletin_0807.h...

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#262

Post by sergiosgc »

tristor wrote: post #147
cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

I hate them so much. Otherwise great cars are completely ruined by touchscreens. What was wrong with tactile knobs you could operate one handed without looking? You’re driving for fuck’s sake. It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.

As an European, where we drive mostly stick, it's funny to observe the newfound US love for stick shifts. It's funny because it happened almost exactly when automatics became good!

Good dual clutch gearboxes are amazing, but even "classic" ones like BMW's ZF6 or ZF8 are really close. ZF8 is so good BMW uses it in the M3, instead of a dual clutch.

With these options, I'd never go back to stick shift. This after having half a million km driven on manual transmissions.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#263

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

kornhole wrote: post #158
Nifty3929 wrote: post #144

The biggest problem I have is tracking that the government has access to. We're in a situation where the government knows everywhere your phone has been, and everywhere your car has been. I doubt we're far from the gov't being able to de-activate your car at will also. I would like to have privacy from corporations, but I really wish we'd keep the focus on privacy from our governments, since they have such ultimate p…

Kill switches are now required for cars produced after 2026. https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/biden-infrastructure-bil... It is for your safety. ;)

Of course, that it won't be disabled by crooks and used for crimes like kidnapping people.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#264

Post by alamortsubite »

tristor wrote: post #204
devilbunny wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about their markups, but Mazda has been pulling out touchscreens and putting back buttons for audio and climate control purposes. Not sure how far it's made it through their models.

Sadly Mazda doesn’t make any AWD cars, only a crossover. AWD is a requirement for me. I loved a Mazda 2 I previously had and loved the Miata track car I sold when I moved last year. Mazda makes great cars but unfortunately none that meet my base requirements.

I think the Mazda3 has an AWD option.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#265

Post by enriquto »

renegat0x0 wrote: post #194

In modern era everything mechanical, or analog is being replaced with digital, or with something "as a software". Product is replaced with "service". When everything becomes in the end connected with the Internet, everything is dependent... A system crash of AWS, Google, or any other monolithic provider will have drastic results. A system crash could halt many cars in a country. In the future Hackers could stall enti…

> There is no really opt out if everybody implements techno-feudalistic software patterns.

I have bad news for you: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#266

Post by wil421 »

nhance wrote: post #2

I've got a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I've been searching for where the sim card is for the built in cellular modem so I can rip it out. It astounds me that there aren't more people interested in cutting off the constant telemetry and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the car refuses to operate correctly when I do figure out where it's at and pull it.

Removing the head unit and unplugging the “Bordeaux” and violet wire[1] may help and be easier to do. It’s the LTE and 3G antennae wire.

I have a 2019 Grand Cherokee and I think we both have the updated head unit. Let me know if anything works.

[1] https://www.jeepgarage.org/threads/uaq-antenna-connections.2...

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#267

Post by Phrenzy »

stanski wrote: post #168
tristor wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate them so much. Otherwise great cars are completely ruined by touchscreens. What was wrong with tactile knobs you could operate one handed without looking? You’re driving for fuck’s sake. It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.

I assume it's a cost thing. Slapping a tablet everywhere and letting the code monkeys figure it out is probably cheaper than making various knobs and buttons. I dread the day I have to get a new car. Even Subaru, who are usually behind the curve, have gone all touch screen.

I learned that very thing setting up my home automation. I was originally planning on designing and printing some sort of button arrangement. But I ended up buying a bunch of cheap Walmart tablets.

Easy to set up and keep updated. But... I'm not driving 70mph when I'm trying to dim the living room lights.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#268

Post by rtb »

0xcafefood wrote: post #13

It almost feels silly to ask, but is this legal even in the United States with its comparatively weak privacy laws? In many states, a vehicle is legally an extension of the home. So legal rights and protections that apply in one's home also apply in one's vehicle. Is the idea that, buried somewhere in the legalese, is a statement that the buyer is granting the automaker the right to spy?

Probably not, but what can any individual do about it?

It's very difficult to show monetary damages in order to actually sue

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#269

Post by brandonagr2 »

tristor wrote: post #132

Of all the horrible things go on with privacy these days, this is the one I hate the most. I’m a “car guy”, but not the sort that obsesses over old cars (although I do love 60s and 80s cars). I like new tech, I like the advances in engineering we’ve made in new vehicles, I like EVs even. Nonetheless I’ve been in the market for a new car for months and haven’t bought because it’s hard to find any cars that meet my req…

If you want best in class safety tech and no dealer markups, you can just order a Tesla online

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#270

Post by seattle_spring »

spacemadness wrote: post #235
tristor wrote: post #132

Of all the horrible things go on with privacy these days, this is the one I hate the most. I’m a “car guy”, but not the sort that obsesses over old cars (although I do love 60s and 80s cars). I like new tech, I like the advances in engineering we’ve made in new vehicles, I like EVs even. Nonetheless I’ve been in the market for a new car for months and haven’t bought because it’s hard to find any cars that meet my req…

These markups are insane, and I wonder if anyone actually gets anywhere near paying them. I don’t really see the point since for those markups you can just get a nicer car. Unless car collectors really are that out of touch and flush with cash.

Unfortunately lots of people are happy to pay the markups. Some subreddits, including /r/rav4prime , will ban you for speaking negatively about dealer markups or those who pay them. Here's their hilariously condescendingly worded rule 4:

> No demonstrations of economic illiteracy. No negativity regarding markups. You are encouraged to post about current prices and markups and your dealership experiences, but please DO NOT express moral value judgments about markups or their absence (except those involving bait-and-switch).

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