Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#31

Post by hashtag-til » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:25 PM UTC

quietpain wrote: post #26

hashtag-til wrote: post #3

I think it will be a good differentiation factor in a few years, that a brand comes up with an offline car, i.e. a car that you just refuel/charge and drive - no telemetry/connected features involved. It may be a niche thing in future, but certainly something that would be appealing to me as a consumer.

I think the insurance co will be the main lever in this story. If you have cameras & telemetry: standard insurance, open source offline car: pay premium.

It is already the case today (at least in the UK). If you accept having a "black box", then you have a discount. I already pay the premium to not have that installed.

PS: I understand we're talking about the future here, just wanted to clarify that paying a premium for less telemetry is already here and not a hypothetical case.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#32

Post by geerlingguy » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:25 PM UTC

hashtag-til wrote: post #3

I think it will be a good differentiation factor in a few years, that a brand comes up with an offline car, i.e. a car that you just refuel/charge and drive - no telemetry/connected features involved. It may be a niche thing in future, but certainly something that would be appealing to me as a consumer.

Maybe this is why Steve Jobs was working on an Apple Car... privacy as a selling point!

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#33

Post by artursapek » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #5

Yes, and that is why I will never buy new unless in the contract I have; 1. No data harvesting 2. If I or anyone discovers any kind of data harvesting, at any time, I get a full refund of the original purchase price plus interest plus 2000 USD from the manufacture. If not received in 6 months, it double ever 6 months. But from what I understand, I heard due to Massachusetts "Right to Repair", all of that is turned of…

lol

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#34

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #23

thfuran wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't.

In some places, this is not an option. I have a mechanical Euro-5 car without sim card nor infotainment system that I would not be able to use where I live by end 2024. Welcome to the EU and its low-emissions zones that span over many of its big cities.

What? Besides Euro-5 emissions restricting access to cities in places, thoae cars are, will be, perfectly road legal in Europe...

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#35

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #23

thfuran wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't.

In some places, this is not an option. I have a mechanical Euro-5 car without sim card nor infotainment system that I would not be able to use where I live by end 2024. Welcome to the EU and its low-emissions zones that span over many of its big cities.

What happens at the end of 2024 that your car won’t operate?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#36

Post by api » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

sharikous wrote: post #8

China is now the biggest car exporter, thanks to the electric car boom. Are there state security issues with Chinese cars too?

The entire area of connected devices is a security and privacy dumpster fire. However bad you think it is, it’s worse. Everything is full of both intentional telemetry and security vulnerabilities.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#37

Post by artursapek » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

0xcafefood wrote: post #11

jmclnx wrote: post #5

Yes, and that is why I will never buy new unless in the contract I have; 1. No data harvesting 2. If I or anyone discovers any kind of data harvesting, at any time, I get a full refund of the original purchase price plus interest plus 2000 USD from the manufacture. If not received in 6 months, it double ever 6 months. But from what I understand, I heard due to Massachusetts "Right to Repair", all of that is turned of…

How do you buy a car that meets those criteria?

you buy a good used car from the first decade of the 2000s or earlier

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#38

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

jgalt212 wrote: post #14

> Kia’s privacy policy reserves the right to monitor your “sex life,” Please tell me this is lawyer CYA boilerplate, or is there a way for the shocks to tell "if this van's a rockin', don't come a knockin'".

They have cameras and gyroscopes in the cabin. Pretty easy to figure it out even without the cameras.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#39

Post by ghusto » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #23

thfuran wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't.

In some places, this is not an option. I have a mechanical Euro-5 car without sim card nor infotainment system that I would not be able to use where I live by end 2024. Welcome to the EU and its low-emissions zones that span over many of its big cities.

Retrofit, that's what I'm planning to do.

Haven't looked into it a great deal yet because there's still plenty of time where I live, but I believe it's possible to get old cars to an emission standard that's compliant. It's not cheap, since it involves replacing the entire engine, but I'd still rather spend money on that than a new car.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#40

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #29

0xcafefood wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you buy a car that meets those criteria?

I've heard of a few very-low-tech models, which are manufactured for NGO's to use in extremely remote places. Dunno if any of 'em would be street legal in a "normal" country. Those might qualify, and their sales process might be so customized that he could get such a contract. Maybe. Otherwise, I'd guess it'll be "whatever it costs" vehicles aimed at the uber-rich, and their personal security details.

It is basically impossible to get those road legal in Europe. I know, because those cars tend to be older MY Land Cruisers and such, with those big, old diesel engines. And there is a sub-culture that loves those. Still, the only way to get one of those is if the car is old enough to qualify as a classic. Similar to Land Rover Defenders and the US.