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On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#131

Post by floorballchamp »

myshpa wrote: post #108
ReactiveJelly wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep forgetting because of this good old two-pronged psy-op: "Wow, you must wear a tinfoil hat, you really think the government is tapping your phones?" "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped? You're so behind the times. Every cool person is already jaded about that." There's almost no will from voters to fight this, so the discourse instantly leaps from "impossible" to "acceptable".

And if it's in a 'I can't believe they would be doing it, really?' territory (black ops, black sites, torture, drone killings, ...), they make a movie about it, effectively normalizing the action for the audience.

"They"? Is Hollywood now part of Pentagon/NSA/...?

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#132

Post by datavirtue »

bhawks wrote: post #24
tptacek wrote: post #2

I still haven't gotten my head around the valorization of Bill Binney, who does not appear to have been an opponent of dragnet surveillance, as he's so often portrayed, but rather of inefficient and poorly managed dragnet surveillance. ThinThread, the system he designed and left NSA over when they didn't pursue it, still left it up to NSA to determine which data to make available, and still presumed NSA would collect…

Whatever system there is in place doesn't seem to do much to address: + lone wolfs such as Uvalde, Las Vegas, Nashville, Waukesha... + Cross border drug operations + Transnational incidents like Nord Stream, spy balloons, COVID. + Military operations in Ukraine, Russia, Afghanistan We are asked to relinquish so many freedoms and spend so much money on what, exactly? The 'we can't tell you because it'll jeopardize all…

It's clear to me the system is in place to maintain: diplomatic, military, energy, and technological dominance so that the US can pick the winners and losers. Makes sense. Any of us would make the same decision, and the American people are not outraged because they directly benefit from these surveillance activities...and they don't even have to get their hands dirty.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#133

Post by caskstrength »

bjourne wrote: post #118
caskstrength wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy was regurgitating Russian propaganda talking points on twitter just days before the invasion and then accepted Russian citizenship after the fact. At this point considering him a Russian asset seems reasonable IMO.

Isn't the big threat the US government's illegal and omnipresent spying on its own and other countries citizens, rather than what Snowden been up to lately?

I'm Ukrainian, so possible Russian assets like Snowden and Greenwald, or (senile) useful idiots like Chomsky and Waters are obviously much bigger threat to me than some dude in Maryland reading my emails.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#134

Post by Mo3 »

floorballchamp wrote: post #131
myshpa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it's in a 'I can't believe they would be doing it, really?' territory (black ops, black sites, torture, drone killings, ...), they make a movie about it, effectively normalizing the action for the audience.

"They"? Is Hollywood now part of Pentagon/NSA/...?

Hollywood has been influenced by the Pentagon for a long time.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#135

Post by datavirtue »

lioeters wrote: post #120
willis936 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>pro-US *pro-illegal-spying I am on the side of the US citizens, Snowden's side.

It's one of those rhetorical tricks being used to manipulate public opinion, where any criticism of the status quo is branded as "un-American" and "un-patriotic". But in fact it's the other way around, we criticize and are angry because we care about the country and the values it stands for. The sleight of hand, the sneakiness of how everything gets turned upside-down is impressive though, how quickly a hero becomes…

And the villains are responsible for propping up your 401k and cheap electric bills. Almost enough intrigue to make you giggle.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#136

Post by JKCalhoun »

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #38
bandrami wrote: post #16

The weirdest thing is that Drake had already whistleblown about the program in 2005. It was front page on the NYT and WP. But 8 years later everybody seemed to have completely forgotten that and acted like Snowden was revealing something new.

People keep forgetting because of this good old two-pronged psy-op: "Wow, you must wear a tinfoil hat, you really think the government is tapping your phones?" "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped? You're so behind the times. Every cool person is already jaded about that." There's almost no will from voters to fight this, so the discourse instantly leaps from "impossible" to "acceptable".

> "Wow, you didn't already know that every phone is tapped?..."

Not sure I'd call it psy-op.

When it became feasible for the NSA to essentially tap every phone in the U.S. I think most of us just presume that they will do just that.

Historically, it's what those with power will do — exercise it.

And for all number of examples in history we are not naive enough to think that their saying they're not doing it (are no longer doing it) means nothing.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#137

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

Mo3 wrote: post #134
floorballchamp wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They"? Is Hollywood now part of Pentagon/NSA/...?

Hollywood has been influenced by the Pentagon for a long time.

To put more context in this: movies made with military equipment need special approval by the us military, and they will not generally approve “unpatriotic” movies and blacklist studios who do make movies they disapprove of… from Defense dot gov:

“ The Defense Department has a long-standing relationship with Hollywood. In fact, it’s been working with filmmakers for nearly 100 years with a goal that’s two-fold: to accurately depict military stories and make sure sensitive information isn’t disclosed.”

https://www.defense.gov/News/Inside-DOD/blog/article/2062735...

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#138

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

I urge everyone interested to read the intel report and tell me what about it is false or inaccurate.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/snowden_report_...

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hpsci_snowden_r...

> “The Committee further found no evidence that Snowden attempted to communicate concerns about the legality or morality of intelligence activities to any officials, senior or otherwise, during his time at either CIA or NSA.” (p. 16)

> “As a legal matter, during his time with NSA, Edward Snowden did not use whistleblower procedures under either law or regulation to raise his objections to U.S. intelligence activities, and thus, is not considered a whistleblower under current law.” (p. 18)

> “Since Snowden’s arrival in Moscow, he has had, and continues to have, contact with Russian intelligence services.” (p. 20)

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#139

Post by datavirtue »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #66
mikem170 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people refer to him as a whistleblower because he exposed what the NSA was doing. A lot of people consider this a public good. Your definition of whisleblower seems to be closer to a government bureaucrat's definition. I'm curious why you brought that up?

I think the parent is claiming that whistleblower protections don't apply to Snowden. A vigilante's actions can be both morally right and blatantly illegal. There are people that are glad he did what he did, but also believe in the rule of law, and feel his actions might have carried more weight if he turned himself in and accepted the legal repercussions. Personally, if I were the judge I'd give him a light slap on…

He would have been executed.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#140

Post by phatfish »

0xDEF wrote: post #96
kome wrote: post #94

This really feels like CIA NSA propaganda. As if nothing wrong happened. What the hell. The character assassination of Snowden&co in the anglophone sphere is absurd, and probably manufactured. But this didn't quite happen in other languages. Assange trials are just mind-blowing and worrisome, and yet the simple truth is here: who told the truth is in jail, and who committed war crimes is outside.

>The character assassination of Snowden Well nobody forced him to repeat Russian propaganda in late 2021 and early 2022 that "Russia was totally not going to invade".

I agree he repeats Russian propaganda and it's sad. It diminishes his previously clear and rational portrayal of what he knew of the NSA.

It was clear that Russia lining their tanks up on the border and stress testing the Ukrainian response to an invasion was not going to be a bluff. Why give your enemy the chance at trial run? This was the message from US and UK intelligence and they were right.

I understand why he does it though, he is in Russia and if someone takes a dislike to him he will be dead. He would also feel justifiably "wronged" by the US, and i understand why he would not want to repeat US messaging, but maybe don't keep quite about the Russian "messaging" as well.

At least he is not as crazy as Kim Dotcom, another Twitter "celebrity" with a taste for Russian propaganda who has been wronged by the US.

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