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On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#81

Post by lern_too_spel »

harry8 wrote: post #23
testcaseuser wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c... How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia…

First one was not published by the journalists Snowden chose, whom he directed as to the kinds of things he wanted published and not. The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better. Your criticism is of the NYT. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowd... And plenty more. How are your criticisms of the CIA, NSA and Dept of homeland security coming along? Or you…

> The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better.

No, the NYT was reporting on documents that Der Spiegel obtained from Poitras, according to Snowden's wishes. The Der Spiegel journalists had decided to publish a book about those documents and made them public in Germany at the same time.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#82

Post by varjag »

jakobnissen wrote: post #39
testcaseuser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

He didn't. He went to Ecuador, but the US cancelled his passport while he was connecting in Russia. And he didn't bring any classified materials with him. So it's 100% on the US government that he ended up in Russia and not Ecuador

It's amazing how the two countries antagonistic to the USA that he was supposed to travel between cared about such a formality, isn't it.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#83

Post by tgv »

neilv wrote: post #53

What's the etymology of the term "Snowden revelations"? People seem to really like that term, and it makes sense. But someone has to have said it first. I don't recall hearing "revelations" used much before then, other than for the book of the Christian New Testament. (Is some of the appeal of the term to allude to an almost biblical impact, or saintly/savior aura around Snowden?)

"Startling revelations ..." was an hackneyed phrase. Use trends.google.com to see its popularity.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#84

Post by witchammer »

hackandthink wrote: post #74
mike_d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what he gave to the journalists. We now know Glenn Greenwald was likely a Russian asset at the time he was given access to the Snowden files. For a member of the intelligence community, he sure did a piss poor job of vetting who he chose to whistleblow with. https://thespectator.com/topic/why-glenn-greenwald-backs-put...

The conclusion of the article you referenced is the opposite: "Greenwald is not, as many of his critics lazily allege, a Russian agent; that would imply that his motivation is pecuniary rather than heartfelt. Greenwald remains what he has always been: a sincere enemy of liberal democracy and a genuine lickspittle for tyrants." Glenn Greenwald is a real liberal democrat and fights for free speech. He even left "The In…

An agent is a very different thing to an asset.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#86

Post by slackfan »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #72
jakobnissen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't go to a hostile country. He went to Ecuador, not a hostile country. The US government cancelled his passport while he was connecting in Russia, and then the Russian airport refused to let him leave. The fact that he's now in Russia is 100% on the US. Also, he didn't bring any stolen information to Russia. He says he was contacted by Russian intelligence but that they pretty quickly figured out he had nothin…

He went to China and leaked documents of what Chinese systems the NSA had compromised in a failed attempt to gain asylum in Hong Kong. China kicked him out. The fact that he's in Russia is 100% on Russia. If you think the Russians care about Snowden's travel documents, you don't know anything about Russia.

If you think that russia is not a beuerocratic hellhole that cares to an extreme amount about travel documents you have never had the pleasure of dealing with russian border security in a moscow airport.

Or you have more money and backing than an average person. I hear langely is quite hot this time of year?

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#87

Post by darkclouds »

witchammer wrote: post #84
hackandthink wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusion of the article you referenced is the opposite: "Greenwald is not, as many of his critics lazily allege, a Russian agent; that would imply that his motivation is pecuniary rather than heartfelt. Greenwald remains what he has always been: a sincere enemy of liberal democracy and a genuine lickspittle for tyrants." Glenn Greenwald is a real liberal democrat and fights for free speech. He even left "The In…

An agent is a very different thing to an asset.

So is a chip off the old block and a chip on one's shoulder.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#88

Post by gorgoiler »

bhawks wrote: post #24
tptacek wrote: post #2

I still haven't gotten my head around the valorization of Bill Binney, who does not appear to have been an opponent of dragnet surveillance, as he's so often portrayed, but rather of inefficient and poorly managed dragnet surveillance. ThinThread, the system he designed and left NSA over when they didn't pursue it, still left it up to NSA to determine which data to make available, and still presumed NSA would collect…

Whatever system there is in place doesn't seem to do much to address: + lone wolfs such as Uvalde, Las Vegas, Nashville, Waukesha... + Cross border drug operations + Transnational incidents like Nord Stream, spy balloons, COVID. + Military operations in Ukraine, Russia, Afghanistan We are asked to relinquish so many freedoms and spend so much money on what, exactly? The 'we can't tell you because it'll jeopardize all…

Government agencies have developed incredible powers but they aren’t heroes. It’s like they have developed incredibly abilities to turn water into wine and raise the dead and yet what do they do with these powers? All they use them for is banal things like saving money on the company picnic wine bill and skipping brake checks on the company vans knowing that if anything bad happens they just resurrect the victims.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#89

Post by caskstrength »

yreg wrote: post #67
AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #20

10 years on, Snowden remains arguably the most important whistleblower in the US after Daniel Ellsberg. The fact that the government pursued Snowden and effectively drove him into exile in an unfriendly country shows how serious the revelations were, and exposes the dangers of an unchecked government. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Snowden single-handedly changed public perception against the NSA and the do…

I recently noticed how the public perception of Snowden changed on reddit. Years ago it was I think very positive. But with the war going on now when I see him come up, usually there are many users saying that he is a naive Russian asset and so on. Makes me a bit sad to see.

The guy was regurgitating Russian propaganda talking points on twitter just days before the invasion and then accepted Russian citizenship after the fact. At this point considering him a Russian asset seems reasonable IMO.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#90

Post by yreg »

titzer wrote: post #78
yreg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently noticed how the public perception of Snowden changed on reddit. Years ago it was I think very positive. But with the war going on now when I see him come up, usually there are many users saying that he is a naive Russian asset and so on. Makes me a bit sad to see.

You think Russian intelligence just let him have asylum (and be granted citizenship) without finding everything he knows about how the NSA operates? That'd be extremely naive to believe. Witting, willing, or not, Snowden has been extremely useful to Russia.

Then perhaps the US shouldn't have forced him to stay in Russia?
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