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On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#51
post #2

I still haven't gotten my head around the valorization of Bill Binney, who does not appear to have been an opponent of dragnet surveillance, as he's so often portrayed, but rather of inefficient and poorly managed dragnet surveillance. ThinThread, the system he designed and left NSA over when they didn't pursue it, still left it up to NSA to determine which data to make available, and still presumed NSA would collect…

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#52

The weirdest thing is that Drake had already whistleblown about the program in 2005. It was front page on the NYT and WP. But 8 years later everybody seemed to have completely forgotten that and acted like Snowden was revealing something new.

Before Snowden people thought you were a conspiracy theorist if you talked about it. Snowden's revelations changed that...

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#53
What's the etymology of the term "Snowden revelations"?

People seem to really like that term, and it makes sense. But someone has to have said it first. I don't recall hearing "revelations" used much before then, other than for the book of the Christian New Testament. (Is some of the appeal of the term to allude to an almost biblical impact, or saintly/savior aura around Snowden?)

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#54
post #18
post #2

I still haven't gotten my head around the valorization of Bill Binney, who does not appear to have been an opponent of dragnet surveillance, as he's so often portrayed, but rather of inefficient and poorly managed dragnet surveillance. ThinThread, the system he designed and left NSA over when they didn't pursue it, still left it up to NSA to determine which data to make available, and still presumed NSA would collect…

See [1] (from 1:14:43). The difference was Binney's system (ThinThread) being designed to quickly filter out most data and retain only a relatively small amount of targeted data. The result being the target had to be specified before the data could be collected. The other system (Trailblazer) was designed to capture and retain as much data as possible, and allow targeting to occur against this enormous buffer after t…

This is likely the most telling premise of all Intel collection ever.

One should only operate on the premise that this is defacto

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#55
post #30

10 years on, Snowden remains arguably the most important whistleblower in the US after Daniel Ellsberg. The fact that the government pursued Snowden and effectively drove him into exile in an unfriendly country shows how serious the revelations were, and exposes the dangers of an unchecked government. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Snowden single-handedly changed public perception against the NSA and the do…

> The fact that the government pursued Snowden They had to. He broke the law. He would have had the chance to go to trial and defend himself and seek whistleblower protection status. Given the politically charged nature and public opinion at the time, he might have had a pretty fair shake and could have been living comfortably in the US working for the ACLU or something. Instead he plotted an escape to an openly host…

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#56

10 years on, Snowden remains arguably the most important whistleblower in the US after Daniel Ellsberg. The fact that the government pursued Snowden and effectively drove him into exile in an unfriendly country shows how serious the revelations were, and exposes the dangers of an unchecked government. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Snowden single-handedly changed public perception against the NSA and the do…

The article makes the case that Snowden was NOT a whistleblower: “ "I want to emphasize this: my active searching out of NSA abuses began not with the copying of documents, but with the reading of them. My initial intention was just to confirm the suspicions that I'd first had back in 2009 in Tokyo. Three years later I was determined to find out if an American system of mass surveillance existed and, if it did, how i…

That seems to be the only way to subvert the very compartmentalization that normally keeps people from seeing such patterns or systemic abuses that he exposed - no?

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#57
post #53

What's the etymology of the term "Snowden revelations"? People seem to really like that term, and it makes sense. But someone has to have said it first. I don't recall hearing "revelations" used much before then, other than for the book of the Christian New Testament. (Is some of the appeal of the term to allude to an almost biblical impact, or saintly/savior aura around Snowden?)

Maybe it’s what you read. “Revelation” is simply the noun form of the verb “reveal.” It doesn’t strike me as an exclusively Biblical reference.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#58
post #53

What's the etymology of the term "Snowden revelations"? People seem to really like that term, and it makes sense. But someone has to have said it first. I don't recall hearing "revelations" used much before then, other than for the book of the Christian New Testament. (Is some of the appeal of the term to allude to an almost biblical impact, or saintly/savior aura around Snowden?)

Depends what you read really, eg:

    They know that men of science throughout the world subject each other’s results to the most searching examination; and that error is mercilessly exposed and rejected as soon as discovered.

    And, finally, they know that still more conclusive testimony is to be found in the daily verification of scientific predictions, and in the never-ceasing triumphs of those arts which Science guides.

    To regard with alienation that which has such high credentials is a folly.

    Though in the tone which many of the scientific adopt towards them, the defenders of Religion may find some excuse for this alienation; yet the excuse is a very insufficient one.

    On the side of Science, as on their own side, they must admit that short-comings in the advocates do not tell essentially against that which is advocated.

     Science must be judged by itself: and so judged, only the most perverted intellect can fail to see that it is worthy of all reverence.
________________________________________________

    Be there or be there not any other revelation, we have a veritable revelation in Science—a continuous disclosure, through the intelligence with which we are endowed, of the established order of the Universe.
________________________________________________

    This disclosure it is the duty of every one to verify as far as in him lies; and having verified, to receive with all humility.

FIRST PRINCIPLES by Herbert Spencer (1863)

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/55046/pg55046-images.ht...

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#60
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He would have had the chance to go to trial and defend himself and seek whistleblower protection status. Is this what you would've done in Snowdon's shoes?

Absolutely. When you make the choice to become a whistleblower, you are making the decision that the information you have is more important than your personal freedoms. Any major US news publication or the EFF would have put their legal team to work protecting him. He could have fled to a friendly country like France that has strong civil liberty protections. He could have gone to a neutral country like Switzerland.…

Poking a rights-violating government in the eye by exposing their rights violations, and then asking that government to protect your rights, isn't such a genius move.

Running away and getting protection from a different rights-violating government that you haven't poked in the eye sounds quite a bit less masochist.

It's also common knowledge he didn't go directly to Russia but had his passport canceled by the US, leading to the Russian airport he was transferring through not letting him leave.

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