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I'm not good enough to work on open source software

journal.dedasys.com

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Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#11

Post by gcp »

davidw wrote: post #9
j_baker wrote: post #5

As someone who has been paid to work on OSS, let me say that it is absolutely not about skill. Most notably, Google and Mozilla pay plenty people to work on Firefox and Chromium. Even Apple has some OSS projects (Webkit and Darwin come to mind).

It was a bit tongue in cheek - I have actually had paying gigs working on open source in the past. But the point about where the money comes from stands - Google's money comes from their proprietary stuff. I actually think something like Google is a pretty good way to produce open source software, by the way, but it's made possible by the money made elsewhere.

I'm not sure it was necessary to refer to the "I'm not good enough" thing. It really has little to nothing to do with your point. Because you've just undermined your own example (Guido Van Rossum / Python / Google) above, it weakens your position.

If I get it correctly, your point is that one requires copyright for open source software to be viable, by opening up a revenue stream to support the (free) open source part. This is true.

You can make money form open source on either:

1) Selling alternate, source closed licenses. (MySQL for example) 2) Selling support, consulting. (Red Hat, many others)

(1) requires copyright. (2) maybe less so, but without the open source licenses, which require copyright law to work, the software wouldn't exist to begin with either. Red Hat uses trademarks (which really are similar to copyright) to reinforce their position. So does Mozilla.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#12

Post by bunderbunder »

billswift wrote: post #3

Of course, another factor is how ending copyright might redirect a lot more resources into open source. Without being able to benefit from rents that come from keeping proprietary code, how many companies would switch to using and improving open source alternatives?

Mine certainly wouldn't, because we would likely go out of business if people stopped paying us for the software that we create.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#13

Post by davidw »

gcp wrote: post #11
davidw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a bit tongue in cheek - I have actually had paying gigs working on open source in the past. But the point about where the money comes from stands - Google's money comes from their proprietary stuff. I actually think something like Google is a pretty good way to produce open source software, by the way, but it's made possible by the money made elsewhere.

I'm not sure it was necessary to refer to the "I'm not good enough" thing. It really has little to nothing to do with your point. Because you've just undermined your own example (Guido Van Rossum / Python / Google) above, it weakens your position. If I get it correctly, your point is that one requires copyright for open source software to be viable, by opening up a revenue stream to support the (free) open source par…

I know you can make money from open source. It's difficult though.

The title was something of an attempt at linkbait (albeit not a very good one), but also a way to point out that effectively, it is harder to get paid to work on open source software.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#14

Post by falcolas »

crcsmnky wrote: post #7

Interesting perspective but I have to say there are quite a few companies working the whole "open source the code, charge for consulting, etc." thing. Just in data alone, Cloudera, Data Stax, Basho, 10gen and Hortonworks come to mind. My point is that thousands of people get paid to work on open source projects. The project might not be their original creation but they still get to give back by producing something th…

FIWI, I have personally not heard of a single one of those companies.

To continue the OP's concept, these are likely companies with employee counts in the single or double digits, whereas closed source companies have employees in the 5-6 digit ranges, reinforcing the "I'm not smart enough to get paid writing open source" concept the OP presented.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#15

Post by bunderbunder »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6
davidw wrote: post #2

I wrote this after the 'PG has lost the plot' thread. I didn't like the title, but the content was fairly good. People really seem to have trouble visualizing "that which is not seen":-)

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

I think it might be instructive to think of what the world was like before the idea of letting people who create intellectual products maintain some ownership of (and therefore be more able to make a living from) their work:

- Serfdom was still legal in most of Western Europe.

- Professional artists occupied the same social rung as prostitutes.

- An intellectual professional's primary option for making a living off his (that pronoun being sufficient for the era) work was patronage.

- The vast bulk of intellectual output served the primary purpose of glorifying the political and religious Powers that Be.

Of course that doesn't imply that the current copyright and patent law isn't enormously out of hand, or that it doesn't largely function to the detriment of creative professionals thanks to the grotesque ways in which it has been amended over the past three or so centuries. But the basic idea is admirable, and it can and should be salvaged.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#16

Post by davidw »

bunderbunder wrote: post #15
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

I think it might be instructive to think of what the world was like before the idea of letting people who create intellectual products maintain some ownership of (and therefore be more able to make a living from) their work: - Serfdom was still legal in most of Western Europe. - Professional artists occupied the same social rung as prostitutes. - An intellectual professional's primary option for making a living off h…

I think so many things have changed that looking at 'before copyright' is not likely to yield much, because it's "before" so much else as well.

I very much agree with your conclusion though.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#17

Post by cynicalkane »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6
davidw wrote: post #2

I wrote this after the 'PG has lost the plot' thread. I didn't like the title, but the content was fairly good. People really seem to have trouble visualizing "that which is not seen":-)

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

Now, another scary thought: what if someone stole the code and databases to your web-service?

This exactly.

It's easy for a community oriented around mostly around things like webapps, SaaS, enterprisey stuff to hop on the anti-IP bandwagon. It just so happens that there's no convenient ways of pirating their software.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#18

Post by gte910h »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6
davidw wrote: post #2

I wrote this after the 'PG has lost the plot' thread. I didn't like the title, but the content was fairly good. People really seem to have trouble visualizing "that which is not seen":-)

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

Why do OSS full time? Release libraries that are better maintained by a community than a company and do your day job.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#19

Post by msie »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6
davidw wrote: post #2

I wrote this after the 'PG has lost the plot' thread. I didn't like the title, but the content was fairly good. People really seem to have trouble visualizing "that which is not seen":-)

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

Ugh, I hate the use of the Chinese as the boogeyman.

Re: I'm not good enough to work on open source software

#20

Post by eli_gottlieb »

gte910h wrote: post #18
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bravo and bingo. These are the exactly the frustrations I tend to feel as an unpaid, open-source coder. And the next level of the phenomenon is that the entire software industry has shifted its business model to avoid having to compete with piracy or open-source. There are now, to my knowledge, two major for-profit companies building their own PC operating systems: Microsoft and Apple. There are four or five building…

Why do OSS full time? Release libraries that are better maintained by a community than a company and do your day job.

1) Because, as I tried to explain, some projects cannot be done as day jobs, and almost have to be done as open-source nowadays.

2) What day job?

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