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Google was founded 25 years ago today

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Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#121

Post by VirusNewbie »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #117
paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

> the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lots more that you enjoy every day Just a reminder that outside of SV/FAANG (so, 99% of devs?) all of that is not even close to be a reality.

I've never lived in SV, but many many companies at least attempt to offer some of the perks big tech companies have come to be known for. It suddenly wasn't enough just to have free snacks and coke, companies started offering more free meals (if not every day), larger bonuses, better workstations or laptops, etc. It really did resonate out to the rest of the industry.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#122

Post by paxys »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #117
paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

> the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lots more that you enjoy every day Just a reminder that outside of SV/FAANG (so, 99% of devs?) all of that is not even close to be a reality.

And how were the conditions 25 years ago for these same developers? Just because everyone doesn't get paid the same doesn't mean the overall compensation in the profession hasn't gone up.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#123

Post by VirusNewbie »

Retric wrote: post #114
paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

By 1998 many of the things you mentioned where common in Silicon Valley. So, Google was hardly the first company to pay very well or have great perks. Historically a huge range of perks have been tossed around including some that have gone away like company cars due to tax code changes that eliminated the benefits. There’s long been ebb and flow around what perks are common, and which ones stick around as the company…

I'm curious about this. Was it true that engineers in the Valley made good money before Google and the like?

I joined the industry after the dotcom boom, and I got the impression that older companies such as IBM were very very mediocre in pay, nothing like Google.

Was that not always true? You see that many people who joined after the IPO were able to retire after 15 years at Google (or Amazon), did that really happen at places like IBM for the average senior engineer?

You'd here about engineers who sometimes became multi-millionaires from an IPO that went well, but now people can become multi-millionaires from W-2 RSUs and a little bit of stock growth.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#124

Post by nailer »

psychoslave wrote: post #111
paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

Hmm, I still fail to realize that, as except flexible work hours, none of this is matching my experience as a software engineer. I live in Europe though. It's not that I complain of my situation: I'm healthy, have a loving family, and work with a great team which is full of kindness and which is part of an international group, something that let me exchange with people from all around the world as part of my job in a…

The food is designed to make you work late and law firms and consulting outfits will realise this too if they haven’t already.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#125

Post by dekhn »

paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

Most of what Google did was copying other companies, like Genentech (I've worked at both, twice). It's almost as if Google got a list from Genentech and then just added 25% to everything. There were a few benefits that I haven't seen anywhere else, such as the death benefit, which led me to joke that I was worth more dead than alive.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#126

Post by paxys »

dekhn wrote: post #125
paxys wrote: post #99

Without commenting on the direction of the company in recent years and where it is today, I'll be forever grateful to Google for setting the standard for how tech companies need to treat their engineers. People who have entered the industry in the last decade or two may not realize it, but the sky high salaries, stock grants, benefits, flexible work hours, free gourmet meals, stocked pantries, gym memberships and lot…

Most of what Google did was copying other companies, like Genentech (I've worked at both, twice). It's almost as if Google got a list from Genentech and then just added 25% to everything. There were a few benefits that I haven't seen anywhere else, such as the death benefit, which led me to joke that I was worth more dead than alive.

You say it like paying 25% more than the prevailing wage is trivial for any company to do. Yes all they did was spend more money on talent than everyone else, and that's exactly what boosted the market.

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#127

Post by jonplackett »

nailer wrote: post #124
psychoslave wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I still fail to realize that, as except flexible work hours, none of this is matching my experience as a software engineer. I live in Europe though. It's not that I complain of my situation: I'm healthy, have a loving family, and work with a great team which is full of kindness and which is part of an international group, something that let me exchange with people from all around the world as part of my job in a…

The food is designed to make you work late and law firms and consulting outfits will realise this too if they haven’t already.

Law firms do this already. On site doctors too = no reason to ever leave!

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#128

Post by dekhn »

paxys wrote: post #126
dekhn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of what Google did was copying other companies, like Genentech (I've worked at both, twice). It's almost as if Google got a list from Genentech and then just added 25% to everything. There were a few benefits that I haven't seen anywhere else, such as the death benefit, which led me to joke that I was worth more dead than alive.

You say it like paying 25% more than the prevailing wage is trivial for any company to do. Yes all they did was spend more money on talent than everyone else, and that's exactly what boosted the market.

Many companies in the bay area pay 25% more than prevailing- it's called "the bay area tax".

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#129

Post by verst »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #108
paulddraper wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall that at one point Microsoft guaranteed to match Google's offers, because Google had clearly figured out how to hire the best engineers.

It certainly doesn't seem that way now, unless there is a massive skew in titles (maybe an L4 at Google is given Senior Engineer 2 at MSFT or something?)

A L5 at Google typically makes more than all principal engineers at Microsoft (levels 65-67)

Re: Google was founded 25 years ago today

#130

Post by dekhn »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #123
Retric wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By 1998 many of the things you mentioned where common in Silicon Valley. So, Google was hardly the first company to pay very well or have great perks. Historically a huge range of perks have been tossed around including some that have gone away like company cars due to tax code changes that eliminated the benefits. There’s long been ebb and flow around what perks are common, and which ones stick around as the company…

I'm curious about this. Was it true that engineers in the Valley made good money before Google and the like? I joined the industry after the dotcom boom, and I got the impression that older companies such as IBM were very very mediocre in pay, nothing like Google. Was that not always true? You see that many people who joined after the IPO were able to retire after 15 years at Google (or Amazon), did that really happe…

Engineers in Silicon Valley did well, but the multiple over other work wasn't as high. I think that's still true for many employers in Silicon Valley- they pay better than average, but when you factor in all the details (long commute, high prices for everything, decaying infra) it's not really a premium.
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