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Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

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Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#101
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not shipping the crack. They are shipping their own binary that has been modified by the crack.

Those modifications have a copy-right they do not own...

A compiler author does not own the output of the compiler.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#102

Related story, I remember years ago as a kid I bought a Prince of Persia PC game at a yardsale (on a CD), but early on in the game there was a riddle where you needed a password to get through this door, it was some cryptic message of a few numbers. I don't remember the exact format but it turned out the riddle was instructing me to go to page X, line Y and character Z of the manual for the game! I remember being so…

Yes, this was a common copy protection in old games!

There's a big list on mobygames here: https://www.mobygames.com/group/9360/games-with-manual-looku...

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#103

Related story, I remember years ago as a kid I bought a Prince of Persia PC game at a yardsale (on a CD), but early on in the game there was a riddle where you needed a password to get through this door, it was some cryptic message of a few numbers. I don't remember the exact format but it turned out the riddle was instructing me to go to page X, line Y and character Z of the manual for the game! I remember being so…

Sim Earth had the same thing! It would ask you a question like "How many moons does Saturn have?" and the manual had some fact sheets at the end with all the numbers. Wikipedia was not around yet, and their fact sheets having slightly different numbers than encyclopedias due to different sources and publish date (moon counts change often, and measurements in meters for anything astronomical have randomness due to imprecisions).

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#104
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not shipping the crack. They are shipping their own binary that has been modified by the crack.

Those modifications have a copy-right they do not own...

I've been waiting for ~23 years for the copyright system to grapple with the implications of 1. having a copyrighted work A 2. taking someone else's "patch" (mod/crack/whatever, I call it "patch" as a general term) B and 3. combining them on your local computer to produce a final work C. We techies have been arguing about who has what rights, who can block who from doing what, who's responsible for what, etc. in that situation for at least that long, when the mood strikes us. I'm still unaware of any really clear precedent on this and I'm pretty sure legislation remains utterly oblivious that such a thing is even possible, or how powerful it is. I've been on the lookout for even a hint of this for a long time and there's hardly been anything.

I guess the economics just haven't worked out to produce a true showdown. Game mods are in my opinion the clear favorite for where this would finally rise to a court-level problem, and clearly there's been a lot of conflict in this space, but nobody yet has been foolhardy enough to build a large enough business on selling some mod that when the owner tries to shut them down they actually go to a full-on, precedent-setting legal battle. (After all, economically, when you get to that level of capability, why not make your own game that you clearly own? That path has been trod many times.)

So, my best answer to your question is, honestly nobody really knows what kind of rights Razor may or may not have to the final product of their crack, especially since it is not the crack itself being distributed.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A No-CD crack might not be transformative enough to warrant copyright protection as derivative work in the US. But they could sue in a jurisdiction that is more likely to give them a favorable outcome. Handling of derivative works and the minimum threshold for copyright varies considerably between countries.

I don't think people on HN understand what a derivative work is, considering how often I see it referenced incorrectly. You can't make a derivative work without a license. That's why it's derivative. It derivates from the copyrighted work and is therefore within the domain of the copyright and under the control of the copyright's owner. A Harry Potter spin-off about Hermione (I don't know anything about HP, sorry in…

If the patch is distributed on its own, without the original binary, is it still a derivative work? Is the unique, creative work of writing "perform XYZ instruction at XYZ address," in lieu of the original executable, still derivative?

This is actually an unanswered/unproven question that comes up quite a bit in automotive tuning, where individuals and tuning companies modify OEM calibrations and create application software patches which, while they are unique and perform stand-alone functions, run on top of OEM ECU software.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#106

Related story, I remember years ago as a kid I bought a Prince of Persia PC game at a yardsale (on a CD), but early on in the game there was a riddle where you needed a password to get through this door, it was some cryptic message of a few numbers. I don't remember the exact format but it turned out the riddle was instructing me to go to page X, line Y and character Z of the manual for the game! I remember being so…

It was common as well to use these things called Code Wheels:

https://archive.org/details/code-wheels

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_wheel

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#107

Related story, I remember years ago as a kid I bought a Prince of Persia PC game at a yardsale (on a CD), but early on in the game there was a riddle where you needed a password to get through this door, it was some cryptic message of a few numbers. I don't remember the exact format but it turned out the riddle was instructing me to go to page X, line Y and character Z of the manual for the game! I remember being so…

I remember when I was young getting a game from my older sister's college boyfriend. Gave me the game on disks, and also a photocopied manual just for this same purpose. Used to be super common for games to use these kinds of checks for anti piracy. I thought it was super funny though, because the game was pretty old, and I was confused why this guy didn't know how to find a cracked version of the game to avoid having to pull out a 60 page manual just to play.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pirating software (movies, and music) is a term from the 90's by the MPAA, Riaa, and Games industry in attempting to link the act of simple copyright infringement, a civil non-criminal violation of the law to violent robbery on the high seas... Cracking is a method of removing undesired features or inclusions from software, often licensing controls, or other anti-consumer features. Many many many people "cracked" the…

That was the scariest term they could come up with? The romantic swashbuckling seafarer, antagonising empires and declaring his own rules? Surely they could have done better. 'software fraud', 'software theft', 'forgery'... hmm well there's a reason I don't work in marketing obviously.

They did those as well, and they also paid for extensive marketing material to make it seem like buying a cracked game was directly contributing to a mafia that was planning on killing your granny.

Do you not remember the ads? The "you wouldn't steal a car"?

Piracy is just what they were able to get. Should have hired the bank's PR managers, who turned "failing to do due diligence on a customer's identity" into the customer's problem.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pirating software (movies, and music) is a term from the 90's by the MPAA, Riaa, and Games industry in attempting to link the act of simple copyright infringement, a civil non-criminal violation of the law to violent robbery on the high seas... Cracking is a method of removing undesired features or inclusions from software, often licensing controls, or other anti-consumer features. Many many many people "cracked" the…

> Many many many people "cracked" their software who where not eganged in the act of copyright infringement, they legally owned the software but for a number of reasons has no desire to run the invasive software bundled with the game or content they purchased. Yes, many people. But not “many many many” people. You try to make it sound like cracking to pirate was minority use case. It was a valid use case, sure, but a…

I seem to recall that for some games the community recommended fix for performance problems was to install a crack so that the game wouldn't try to read stuff from the CD, which might be slow depending on the drive you have, and would be very slow if the CD has some scratch so the drive repeatedly attempted to read the same spot until it succeeded.

Re: Rockstar is selling cracked game copies on Steam

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to either be or represent the copyright holder. I'm 99% sure most warez groups have no interest in exposing themselves to any legal systems when it comes to what they do.

If I say I represent such a group, then; is it likely that anyone will disagree? DMCA cases seem to be about who has the scarier looking letterhead anyway. To whom would I have to prove or disprove my standing to take Rockstar games down, I wonder? Does Steam have any right to refuse such a request just because it's patently absurd?

>DMCA cases seem to be about who has the scarier looking letterhead anyway.

This is only true of Youtube, where their "DMCA" process is entirely extralegal, which is why there is no penalty for an incorrect takedown request.

If you file a DMCA, and Valve ignores it, you have to take it to court, where a judge will decide whether you prove you are the rightful copyright holder. As in the case with google, a company is free to take down content for any reason, including for bogus DMCA claims.

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