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I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

theintercept.com

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Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#51

Post by ccakes »

pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

> The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration

The goal of the prison system should be rehabilitation. Punishment doesn’t mean anything if you’ve got nothing waiting for you on the outside.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#52

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

I see a disconnect between your pargraph 1 and 2. In 2 you describe something that actually sounds reasonable - re-socializing by establishing clear rules and giving prisoners something to do to feel that they are rehabilitating in a structured way. If I were in prison I’d take a job, paid or not.

But that wasn’t your point in 1 or the rest so I’m pretty sure you think other way around, no?

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#53

Post by troupe »

> My certifications as a flagger and forklift driver have proved incapable of outshining the glaring label of convicted felon that accompanies them on applications.

Perhaps the market is behaving irrationally by not valuing convicted felons appropriately. The places that seem to be successful look like they usually make hiring criminals part of their brand like Dave's Killer Bread.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#54

Post by nullindividual »

troupe wrote: post #53

> My certifications as a flagger and forklift driver have proved incapable of outshining the glaring label of convicted felon that accompanies them on applications. Perhaps the market is behaving irrationally by not valuing convicted felons appropriately. The places that seem to be successful look like they usually make hiring criminals part of their brand like Dave's Killer Bread.

The market should be completely unaware that this person is a felon.

Why does the government continue to punish someone after they’ve served their sentence allowing employers to pry into their background?

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#55

Post by camel_gopher »

bdcravens wrote: post #30
Pigalowda wrote: post #14

I don’t really like that prison labor is used for consumer products. However if prisoners would like to be part of voluntary labor units that do outdoor work like tree plants, reservoir digs, and other public good/infrastructure building that would be useful and not competitive to private firms. I’m not sure i care at all about “prison jobs” that require them to clean dishes, prepare their own food, or wash their own…

Texas limits commercial labor to products that are sold or traded with other government entities, so it's a matter of interpretation as to whether that's unfair competition (since those entities would otherwise need to purchase those goods in the free market)

Corruption not competition

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#56

Post by ffhhttt »

intrasight wrote: post #22
brianwawok wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are cool with private industry making millions on the back of “captive” slave labor markets for $1 an hour?

UNICOR is a wholly owned government corporation not a private company. Average cost to taxpayers per incarcerated person is about $100K. So let them work for free up until that amount. But even if it were private, how ethically is this worse than private companies making billions building weapons of mass destruction? Or platforms of mass surveillance?

> Average cost to taxpayers per incarcerated person is about $100K

Seems to he false? For Federal inmates anyway..

It was just $35k back in 2019. So it can’t be much more than half of what you’re claiming these days.

* https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/09/01/2021-18...

> how ethically is this worse than private companies making billions building weapons of mass destruction? Or platforms of mass surveillance?

Doesn’t seem to be even tangentially related?

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#57

Post by pseudotrash »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #52
pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

I see a disconnect between your pargraph 1 and 2. In 2 you describe something that actually sounds reasonable - re-socializing by establishing clear rules and giving prisoners something to do to feel that they are rehabilitating in a structured way. If I were in prison I’d take a job, paid or not. But that wasn’t your point in 1 or the rest so I’m pretty sure you think other way around, no?

I do think work is important part to rehabilitation and also meaningful to pass time. Where I have an issue with is as you point out the for-profit nature of prisons. Even in Europe where one might not immediately consider prisons to be for-profit structures, one has inmates assembling ballpoint-pens or assembling low tech items for EUR 5,30 per day. This will ensure the inmate can purchase coffee and chocolates once a fortnight. But it doesn't change their employability after release. Once they get out it is either back to crime, or straight into another state facility (homeless shelter etc). This could be different if the inmate were actually able to save up some money while there. Sure an addict will likely sound it, or they might have a chance to put it into getting help.

There is another more meta aspect to it when considering a facility location. Many times the facility is a small town and then becomes the biggest local employer. Not just for guards but also lawyers, state attorneys, social-workers, judges etc. If that facility closes down it means these people would have to relocate. This is very hard to decouple and untangle.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#58

Post by Gortal278 »

ccakes wrote: post #51
pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

> The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration The goal of the prison system should be rehabilitation. Punishment doesn’t mean anything if you’ve got nothing waiting for you on the outside.

Why should it be rehabilitation? Keeping people off the street to so they can't re-offend is a pretty good goal.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#59

Post by Gortal278 »

nullindividual wrote: post #54
troupe wrote: post #53

> My certifications as a flagger and forklift driver have proved incapable of outshining the glaring label of convicted felon that accompanies them on applications. Perhaps the market is behaving irrationally by not valuing convicted felons appropriately. The places that seem to be successful look like they usually make hiring criminals part of their brand like Dave's Killer Bread.

The market should be completely unaware that this person is a felon. Why does the government continue to punish someone after they’ve served their sentence allowing employers to pry into their background?

It is as relevant as people's experience and certifications.

Societies laws are not particularly difficult to follow even if you disagree with them, if someone I work has chosen not to follow those laws to a degree that they have been imprisoned by a jury of their peer's I think it is as relevant as their previous roles + educational attainment.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#60

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

pseudotrash wrote: post #57
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a disconnect between your pargraph 1 and 2. In 2 you describe something that actually sounds reasonable - re-socializing by establishing clear rules and giving prisoners something to do to feel that they are rehabilitating in a structured way. If I were in prison I’d take a job, paid or not. But that wasn’t your point in 1 or the rest so I’m pretty sure you think other way around, no?

I do think work is important part to rehabilitation and also meaningful to pass time. Where I have an issue with is as you point out the for-profit nature of prisons. Even in Europe where one might not immediately consider prisons to be for-profit structures, one has inmates assembling ballpoint-pens or assembling low tech items for EUR 5,30 per day. This will ensure the inmate can purchase coffee and chocolates once…

I had no idea that it is this way in Europe as well (PL here). Personally, I don't have an opinion to argue for either way. If anything, the whole idea that a part of rehabilitation must include being locked in with other people in an awful place is repulsive to me.

I'm reminded of this video: https://youtu.be/cX-r5ulpoQQ

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