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California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

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Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#21

Post by pwthornton »

constantly wrote: post #5
paxys wrote: post #2

California and Florida are the 1st and 3rd most populous states in the country. We hear about the effects of climate change disproportionately in these states simply because there are a lot more people affected (by sheer number) than elsewhere. Otherwise the problems are the same as everywhere else.

You’re saying per capita increase in incidents is the same in Colorado or Nebraska or Minnesota as it is in Florida and California? Can you provide the data you used to reach this conclusion to back up this statement that seems absurd on its face?

I don't think that data exists.

I grew up in Ohio and go back several times a year. There has been no major change in incidents. Winter is a bit warmer now, and there is more rain/freezing rain than there used to be (from days in the winter when it is too warm for snow). It is becoming less likely that Lake Erie will freeze over, which means more lake effect snow later in the season.

But overall, it's not a state getting hit with massive droughts or natural disasters. Many states are like this.

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#24

Post by ilamont »

Another important angle: the prevailing notion of taking "good air" for people with various ailments. This was an especially powerful lure for the southwest, with its drier climes.

My great-aunt's first husband developed TB, possibly connected with his service in the first World War. Several decades later he hitchhiked from New York to the VA hospital in Tucson for treatment and recuperation (he rallied but died soon after returning to NY). His entire family eventually relocated to Mesa for similar reasons - the daughter developed some sort of lung condition and they felt that the dry air in the Southwest would help.

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#25

Post by rconti »

jart wrote: post #18
mcntsh wrote: post #14

(Coastal) California still has the perfect climate compared to basically everywhere else in the US, even considering the "dangerous heat waves, extended droughts that threaten the water supply, and uncontrollable wildfires." Writing this from the east coast where we have wild fires, 500 AQI days, *months long of 85+ degree days with high humidity. Pretty sure California got more rain this year than New York.

Yeah the weather people in the Bay Area consider a calamity, east coasters would call Tuesday.

I love these puritanical notions. Gotta be good, hard-working, cold-hardened folk!

>Employed by the transcontinental railroads, influential writers like Charles Nordhoff contested eastern notions of Southern California as barren desert where “Anglo-Americans” would inevitably succumb to the “disease” of laziness.

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#26

Post by jasonlotito »

jart wrote: post #18
mcntsh wrote: post #14

(Coastal) California still has the perfect climate compared to basically everywhere else in the US, even considering the "dangerous heat waves, extended droughts that threaten the water supply, and uncontrollable wildfires." Writing this from the east coast where we have wild fires, 500 AQI days, *months long of 85+ degree days with high humidity. Pretty sure California got more rain this year than New York.

Yeah the weather people in the Bay Area consider a calamity, east coasters would call Tuesday.

This is amusing seeing this sentiment posted here while just north of Philadelphia, schools are closing early because it's too hot in school.

It's 85f right now.

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#27

Post by hristov »

paxys wrote: post #2

California and Florida are the 1st and 3rd most populous states in the country. We hear about the effects of climate change disproportionately in these states simply because there are a lot more people affected (by sheer number) than elsewhere. Otherwise the problems are the same as everywhere else.

I think the effects on Florida will be far worse than most other places in the US. The difference with crazy Florida is that the official state government does not actually believe in climate change. Thus, they are less likely to do the necessary things to minimize climate change losses.

They are still building massive apartment buildings on the waterline, expensive luxury houses on sandbars that are projected to be under water in 50 years, etc.

They are helping global warming put them under water by building heavy buildings on the sand by the beach so that the buildings compress the sand down while the ocean goes up.

Most of Florida is already near ocean water level, which means they are in real danger of having the seawater wash over most of their land and completely destroy all of their sources of drinkable water. To prevent that they should be investing in dykes and barriers, etc., but of course they are not, because they do not believe in climate change.

Also, talking to Floridians, I gather that they have this naive childlike belief that whatever happens, the federal government will bail them out. It is a little ironic because most of them are staunch conservatives that do not believe the federal government should be doing much, and that people should not rely on government in general, but they still believe that the federal government will fix whatever climate emergency comes along.

There is some historical reasoning behind that. The federal government did do a lot to make Florida livable. But the current climate emergency is such a major problem, it is not clear the federal government will have the will to spend the enormous amounts of money necessary, nor whether they will be able to solve the problem even if they could spend the money.

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#29

Post by tootallgavin »

xnx wrote: post #6

Weird that the article doesn't mention air conditioning, which basically makes life in Florida possible. Florida population almost doubled in 10 years with widespread air conditioning: https://theparklander.com/2017/07/07/floridas-sweltering-lif...

What? Most of the world has _never_ had air conditioning _ever_.

How is this a real comment?

Re: California and Florida now lead the country in climate change risks

#30

Post by toast0 »

sologoub wrote: post #7
Aloha wrote: post #3

California and Florida were indeed sold where the idea of a perfect climate - by land speculators. In both places the reality of the situation was not what was promised: California with periodic drought, and a general shortage of water in the places people wanted to live. Drought which brings fire, followed by wet years, which bring mud. My entire childhood was punctuated by dry, fire, rain, mud - rinse and repeat, l…

For California, drought/water shortage is primarily and agricultural problem, but has been externalized to urban areas and consumers - urban uses are 10%, while 40% goes to agricultural uses[1]. “Environmental” is 50%, but it’s a bit of an odd measure - per the report [1] it’s for rivers and maintaining habitats. I’d pref to exclude that from the available total. That would make agriculture 80% and urban uses 20%. Wh…

> For California, drought/water shortage is primarily and agricultural problem, but has been externalized to urban areas and consumers - urban uses are 10%, while 40% goes to agricultural uses.

Yes, agricultural dominates usage, but southern california with no agriculture would still have to transfer water from elsewhere (colorado river, sacramento delta etc) in order to sustain the population.

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