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‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#111

Post by etrautmann »

beardedwizard wrote: post #53
basisword wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation t…

My experience was that you will never feel "ready" to have kids, you just close your eyes and go for it. I think it is a good idea to look at finances and relationship health; but beyond that I'm not sure much else matters. It's almost the same as marriage - and your comment is insightful in that when given the choice humans will almost never choose to change, being "selfish" feels great while you are doing it.

That’s exactly my experience (typing with an eight week old sleeping on my chest. I can’t imagine feeling 100% ready before, but the 9 months leading up to the delivery is time to mentally shift and prepare for the enormous change.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#112

Post by Dudester230602 »

ssanders82 wrote: post #74
10g1k wrote: post #27

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have your own kid. NOTHING is more important.

Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us. We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.

> That's pretty patronizing.

Let's be lenient, there is a whole cocktail of dont-abandon-your-child hormones in that brain.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#113

Post by em-bee »

pertymcpert wrote: post #54
bt4u wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

I've never seen that happen myself, but I have heard of it. My only theory is that it happens in places which are heavily socially/politically conservative and "backwards", where women can't imagine men being an actual real parent.

in new zealand men are not able to work as teachers or caregivers. which essentially means, men are not trusted with children. i don't think of new zealand as conservative or backwards, even though that attitude certainly is backwards, but that makes it tautological.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#114

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

> 25% of men over 42 do not have children – 5% more than women of the same age group

In another generation, I believe this number will jump. That's mostly because of current economics. Two people making the most commonly earned wages can not afford housing (then add sharply increased costs of insurances and transportation).

Stated otherwise, most couples can't afford to be an independent couple.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#115

Post by antasvara »

_V_ wrote: post #81
ssanders82 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us. We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.

If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? I'm asking as a person who does not (yet) have kids myself.

I know a few couples that don't have children by choice. In small talk, they are constantly being asked how their children are doing, do they have any children, are they planning on having kids, etc.

Even when it's not meant to be judgmental, those kinds of questions can get old after a while. Then, add in the fact that the line of questioning often is judgmental and you'll frustrate even the most patient person.

It doesn't take an overly sensitive person to get frustrated by that. Hell, I got frustrated by the attitudes and questions, and I actually wanted (and now have) kids.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#117

Post by dcolkitt »

bell-cot wrote: post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

The large majority of Americans live within 50 miles of where they grew up. And this number has been steadily ticking up. Geographic mobility is the lowest it’s ever been in the post war period.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#118

Post by _V_ »

antasvara wrote: post #115
_V_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe that your choice is right, why are you so sensitive about it? I'm asking as a person who does not (yet) have kids myself.

I know a few couples that don't have children by choice. In small talk, they are constantly being asked how their children are doing, do they have any children, are they planning on having kids, etc. Even when it's not meant to be judgmental, those kinds of questions can get old after a while. Then, add in the fact that the line of questioning often is judgmental and you'll frustrate even the most patient person. It…

Well that tends to happen. People usually talk the most about things that are a big part of their life. So if someone wants to connect with you, they will inevitably try in certain point of life to ask if you have kids.

Nothing sinister here...

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#119

Post by Tangurena2 »

I wanted to get married and have kids. Being rather effeminate, I don't attract the women who do want to have kids. I was about 40 when I finally realized that if she said she didn't want kids, she really meant it and it was not negotiable. I swore a vow: no more childless relationships. Being in no relationship is far better than being in the wrong relationship.

When I tried to adopt, Florida's child welfare agency decided - after doing a background check - decided to declare me "legally gay" since I was heavily involved in LGBT rights (all my friends were lesbians and I was mad at how badly they were treated). And back then, it was illegal in FL for gays/lesbians to adopt. Not that I was/am one.

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