Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 281 posts

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#71

Post by em-bee »

basisword wrote: post #13
bell-cot wrote: post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation t…

i think the smart thing to do is to have kids when you are 20 and then enjoy life when you are 40. at that time you are much better off financially (unless you live in a country where you have to pay for your kids education maybe) which gives you a lot more freedom to explore your interests.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#72

Post by _V_ »

tr888 wrote: post #61
_V_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I don't see anything patronising in there. It is just a statement. I don't think that people who cannot have children are seen as something less. This is just you wanting to be offended. And yes, in general there is almost nothing more important other than reproduction from the perspective of species. Nothing controversial about that either.

I'm not offended, thanks. I'm just saying that there is a life for everyone, and reproducing is not the most important thing for many. We're not talking objectively about the biology of the human species, really. We're talking about anthropology and what being a human means.

It seemed like that when you were saying how you hate "that attitude".

Nevertheless, that statement does not say that there is not a life for everyone. It merely states that there is an inner drive to have children, see them grow and ultimately take care of you and the world. And this inner drive exists despite many people trying to say otherwise.

I mean it might be cool to work for $BIGCORP and build your career. You get cool things like nice car, nice suit... But the $BIGCORP will not hold your hand when you are scared before surgery, it will not help you move something when you are old and most certainly will not wipe your butt when you are too old to get up on your own.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#73

Post by tr888 »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #43
tr888 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not.

If you look at things objectively, then yes, it is the most important for the species. If you look at things relatively, then no, there's a lot of factors at play and everyone does not need to have kids (overpopulation concerns, cost of living, personal preferences, etc). That being said, having kids brings so much perspective to a life already lived. You almost live a second (or third, forth, fifth, etc) life vicari…

It certainly is an experience, it's just not the only experience in life's rich tapestry!

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#74

Post by ssanders82 »

10g1k wrote: post #27

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have your own kid. NOTHING is more important.

Nah, I've seen the lives of my friends who have kids. I'm happy for them, but my wife and I don't want that life. Sounds like having kids was the right choice for you, that's great, but don't preach at us.

We looked at the choices, and made ours. Don't tell me it was the wrong choice, without knowing literally anything about me or my wife. That's pretty patronizing.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#75

Post by tomatocracy »

bt4u wrote: post #7
corobo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a single man adopting is considered as pervert Is this evidence or assumption? Not challenging too hard just wondering if you've actually been called or treated like a perv or if it's something you assume will occur

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

Not sure where you are but here in the UK I have been taking my children to the playground on my own for 10 years now and I have never seen this happen either to myself or another Dad. At the weekends I'd say it's mostly Dads in fact.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#76

Post by bsagdiyev »

MaKey wrote: post #58
bsagdiyev wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure by bt4u's comment is dead, but I've had that exact situation happen to me. Been accused of trying to steal a child while taking my son to the playground. It is an actual thing and it sucks.

Is this an American thing? I can't imagine that happening in Europe, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.

Yes, in California at the time. Some people get weird. It isn't like it happens all the time, it was a first for me.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#77

Post by dghughes »

I'm in the same boat. Just a shy kid who never got over it.

My grandfather died when I was three and I think it hit Dad hard. I was determined to find a woman and have children even if it meant doing so if not married. My Catholic parents were very against that it was unspoken but very obvious in their attitude.

My Dad died a few years ago so my plan fell apart. Now Mom is old so she is not long for this world either. But even so I am early 50s so unless I win a lot of money, get famous fast, find a foreign wife (who won't murder me), or somehow father a child I'm SOL.

It is depressing especially seeing in later life how family support is great to have. When I'm old I'll have nobody. And I mean just regular stuff having someone to drive you to appointments, help with home repairs, finances. There are a lot of scammers and bad people ready to pounce on elderly.

We need old time forced dances where a lot of us shy folks are forced to interact.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#78

Post by bombcar »

bell-cot wrote: post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

The elites don’t want you to know this but the regrets at old age are free you can take them home I have 458 regrets.

Much of it can be "path not taken" but you have to work hard to distinguish actual real regret (which will involve understanding why the choices were made, and what about the choices was wrong (e.g., "I underestimated the work vs reward") vs the "nobody wants to talk to me now, if I had kids I could force them to."

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#79

Post by mbg721 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #65
bell-cot wrote: post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

Mixed feelings. On the one side, it feels like people stay "immature" for longer; instead of starting their careers in their teens and a family not long after, people stay in school until their mid-twenties. Then, what does it take to start a family? Stability. People need a stable income, a living wage, and a place they can call home. If people complain about birth rates, pay people a living wage when they enter the…

Another side of that is not having such obnoxiously specialized careers that every job change means having to move to a different state.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#80

Post by xyzzy4747 »

jokoon wrote: post #44

I'm 38, and I'm socially unable to meet women outside of online dating, I've had enough girlfriend and a long, 8 years relationship (she did not want kids). I don't really understand that social norm of having kids. I can understand sexual desire, but is there really a "desire to have kids"? Is having kids really some kind of moral imperative to "continue the human species"? Anyway, women have high standards, which i…

Yes, there is a desire. I’m 36 and recently had my first with my wife and hoping for another sometime.
Post reply on HN