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‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

11–20 of 281 posts

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#11
post #8
post #2

> this Game of Thrones genetic push felt by men to have children”. Literally no idea what this means.

It’s explained by the next sentence. > Instead, he said: “There’s this mistaken belief that men are fertile across their lifespan, so there’s no imperative to get on with it.”

How does that relate to Game of Thrones? I’ve only seen the show and can’t think of any examples of that. Is there a character in the books who waits too long to have kids?

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#12
post #8
post #2

> this Game of Thrones genetic push felt by men to have children”. Literally no idea what this means.

It’s explained by the next sentence. > Instead, he said: “There’s this mistaken belief that men are fertile across their lifespan, so there’s no imperative to get on with it.”

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Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#13
post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation that's probably better for you rather than delaying it until it's too late. Now that we have 'choice' things are more difficult because you need to actually commit to something life changing. For most people it's impossible to know the 'right time' to do that or for them to have the courage necessary to take the change.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#15
post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

Why is wanting to do X now so you don’t regret not doing X later not a valid reason for wanting to do X? I want to eat lunch now so I’m not hungry later. I want to study hard now so I don’t regret not studying later. Aren’t most motivations essentially based on the possibility of future regret?

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#16
post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

> where kids generally grow up and move far away for jobs - having had children would probably not help much with that.

Companionship was never a part of why I fathered children. And in hindsight, raising my daughters was the most meaningful thing I did in this life.

I'm just suggesting that there may be other motives for parenting.

Big Brothers and Sisters of America is an organization that pairs men up with boys who are in single-mother families (and I guess now women with single-father girls). (I was a "little brother" when I was young.)

I am not sure about whether a single male is eligible (I don't see why not?) but AFS and other "foreign exchange student" organizations might be another avenue to "parenting" of a sort. I also found the 10 months or so I spent being a host parent to be very rewarding.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#17
I feel bad for the people that now want to have had children but didn't but as a father of two, if you didn't directly plan to have kids it might have been better that you didn't, kids take a lot of work, you have to be in the right place to do it.

I used to be the person that said "yeah, go have kids" and now I'm "only do it if you're completely sure its what you want" because if you're not it's the children suffering through it.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#18
post #9

I can't have kids. So am I big sad. Congratulations to all fathers out there. Want to adopt some poor kid and give him/her a possibility to have a kind of a standard life and to help to open a door to the world :( But a single man adopting is considered as pervert. So I am even bigger sad.

It's becoming more and more common for single men to adopt children. But yeah, expect some scrutiny. Otherwise we failed as a society.

HN is a global forum spanning multiple countries and even more societal mores.

To your point though, "we" already failed as a society by not sufficienty scrutinising the bulk of adoptions to ostensibly stable 'ideal' families in decades past.

A number of these adoptions turned out fine, many did not.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#19
post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

> but a young man whose main motive for marriage is "so I don't regret not having kids when I'm old"

I had a spit take here. When people say they regret not doing something, they are talking about regretting not everything that came along with doing that thing, not just avoiding the emotion of regret later in life.

You could rephrase that into "a young man whose main motive for marriage is to have a loving, fulfilling family which they would prefer much more than staying single, esp later in life" and it's a pretty anodyne take on why anyone gets married and starts a family.

When someone says they regret not quitting smoking 30 years ago or starting to exercise daily, are they just talking about avoiding the emotion of regret in 30 years?

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#20
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s explained by the next sentence. > Instead, he said: “There’s this mistaken belief that men are fertile across their lifespan, so there’s no imperative to get on with it.”

How does that relate to Game of Thrones? I’ve only seen the show and can’t think of any examples of that. Is there a character in the books who waits too long to have kids?

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