Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

telecom.csail.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 486 posts

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#91

Post by dylan604 »

tzs wrote: post #81
cogman10 wrote: post #17

I thought this might be fiction because the amount of time for pirating cable seemed crazy.. However [1] there are indeed up to 6 month penalties for stealing cable. That's just ludicrous. How could copyright theft ever be anything other than a civil action? Jail time for stealing cable, that's just insane. Nobody gets hurt from stolen cable. We really need to look long and hard at what we allow jail time for. Jail t…

It has nothing to do with copyright.

Right. Its using a service without paying for it which is theft if proven that it was done intentionally. Not sure how copyright was brought into this conversation.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#92

Post by cogman10 »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #68
cogman10 wrote: post #17

I thought this might be fiction because the amount of time for pirating cable seemed crazy.. However [1] there are indeed up to 6 month penalties for stealing cable. That's just ludicrous. How could copyright theft ever be anything other than a civil action? Jail time for stealing cable, that's just insane. Nobody gets hurt from stolen cable. We really need to look long and hard at what we allow jail time for. Jail t…

Copyright is a property right. It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges. This is not strictly done in service of big media---if organized crime rings come in to town and do a ton of rogue hookups with impunity, then the cable company leaves and you have a cycle of degradation in the quality of life. Preventing organized crime is why it is a federal offense. Of course,…

> Copyright is a property right. It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges.

Property theft and intellectual rights theft are two very different things. If I steal your car, you are now out a car and the use of a car. If I steal a copy of your artwork, you still have that artwork and can still sell copies of that artwork. I only start impacting your bottom line if I start selling copies.

To the extent you are impacted by a copyright violation, you can be made whole with a market rate payment for the copies created and a penalty. That's what civil law is for.

Wage theft has a much bigger negative impact on people's lives yet it's basically never criminally prosecuted. So why should copyright theft ever be criminally prosecuted?

> Also note that cable theft (e.g., the physical tampering element) can damage emergency communication lines and can create dangerous electrical problems.

Fair point, though I can't see why we'd punish that more harshly than we'd punish unauthorized digging (which is typically just civil to replace damaged lines.)

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#93

Post by dylan604 »

Larrikin wrote: post #18
cogman10 wrote: post #17

I thought this might be fiction because the amount of time for pirating cable seemed crazy.. However [1] there are indeed up to 6 month penalties for stealing cable. That's just ludicrous. How could copyright theft ever be anything other than a civil action? Jail time for stealing cable, that's just insane. Nobody gets hurt from stolen cable. We really need to look long and hard at what we allow jail time for. Jail t…

[flagged]

I once "heard a story" about a very smart white guy that was retired special forces--just to put this racial thing to bed. Anyway, this guy lived in a subdivision that did not get cable. The cable company said there were not enough subscribers to justify the expense of the construction to bring them service. So mister special forces takes it upon himself to string a cable himself, and then decided to bring cable to the rest of the subdivision. After getting caught and arrested, part of his restitution was to make a PSA with him on camera in handcuffs saying something like "stealing cable is a crime" or something to that effect.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#94

Post by wkat4242 »

In the Netherlands customers were often left connected even in the analog days. The base package was cheap and the premium channels were scrambled anyway. I had cable for free like this after I moved into a new place for years.

I spent a lot of time soldering descramblers which worked for a year or so until the coding changed again. Only for personal use. They usually only managed video anyway, not audio. But it didn't matter as in the premium material I was interested as an exploring teenager the video was way more important than the audio >:)

Of course this was pre-internet which solved that material access issue.

But I don't think people ever actually went to jail for this stuff. With the premium boxes there was no way to detect it, they could only go after the sellers of the kits.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#95

Post by Aloha »

thatoneguy wrote: post #31

I was a "broadband technician" around then and AT&T Broadband did not give AF if you were stealing cable or not. I only handled cable modem installs and quit after a year to go major in philosophy and because: - Getting quietly threatened once (with AR-15 up against the customer's front door) on a troubleshooting call that I wasn't able to leave until "the internet started working". - Having to increasingly go do cab…

It generally was never their TVs.

It was the neutral to their house failing and using the cable line shield and it's associated grounds as a neutral.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#96

Post by dreamcompiler »

wkat4242 wrote: post #89
thatoneguy wrote: post #31

I was a "broadband technician" around then and AT&T Broadband did not give AF if you were stealing cable or not. I only handled cable modem installs and quit after a year to go major in philosophy and because: - Getting quietly threatened once (with AR-15 up against the customer's front door) on a troubleshooting call that I wasn't able to leave until "the internet started working". - Having to increasingly go do cab…

The amount of incidents involving firearms is astonishing. I'm glad I live in Europe where literally nobody has guns except police and heavy criminals that only really use them to shoot their rivals. I thought most people in the US were proud of their firearm handling professionalism which of course includes not brandishing, threatening or murdering people. I'm really a bit surprised to hear this. I did a similar job…

> I thought most people in the US were proud of their firearm handling professionalism which of course includes not brandishing or murdering people.

I take it you have not actually visited the United States.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#97

Post by dylan604 »

torstenvl wrote: post #62
profile53 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the parent post was engaging in an ideological flame war. As a way to start educating yourself, I’d recommend reading about the correlation between long jail sentences and African American heritage. https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/publications/racial-d... (Edit: this DOJ report is more relevant to the time period of the article. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/sfc-drmtsg8690.pdf ) Deny the ba…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#98

Post by Zuiii »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #68
cogman10 wrote: post #17

I thought this might be fiction because the amount of time for pirating cable seemed crazy.. However [1] there are indeed up to 6 month penalties for stealing cable. That's just ludicrous. How could copyright theft ever be anything other than a civil action? Jail time for stealing cable, that's just insane. Nobody gets hurt from stolen cable. We really need to look long and hard at what we allow jail time for. Jail t…

Copyright is a property right. It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges. This is not strictly done in service of big media---if organized crime rings come in to town and do a ton of rogue hookups with impunity, then the cable company leaves and you have a cycle of degradation in the quality of life. Preventing organized crime is why it is a federal offense. Of course,…

> Copyright is a property right.

No, it isn't. The hint is right there in the name. Copying does not deprive people of their property. That's why they came up with the word Infringement to use instead of Theft, because they are fundamentally different things.

It worries me that there are people now who think that information is like property and that it can be owned.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#99

Post by aidenn0 »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #68
cogman10 wrote: post #17

I thought this might be fiction because the amount of time for pirating cable seemed crazy.. However [1] there are indeed up to 6 month penalties for stealing cable. That's just ludicrous. How could copyright theft ever be anything other than a civil action? Jail time for stealing cable, that's just insane. Nobody gets hurt from stolen cable. We really need to look long and hard at what we allow jail time for. Jail t…

Copyright is a property right. It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges. This is not strictly done in service of big media---if organized crime rings come in to town and do a ton of rogue hookups with impunity, then the cable company leaves and you have a cycle of degradation in the quality of life. Preventing organized crime is why it is a federal offense. Of course,…

> Copyright is a property right

Huh? The term "Intellectual Property" is a metaphor, not literal. There is zero intrinsic moral imperative against copying; copyright is a policy decision to encourage creation under a capitalist system. Other systems for encouraging creation have existed in the past (and exist concurrently with copyright).

If copyright were a property right, then "fair use" would be legalized theft.

Re: Get a cable modem, go to jail (1999)

#100

Post by erosenbe0 »

crazygringo wrote: post #88
erosenbe0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is a property right. It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges. This is not strictly done in service of big media---if organized crime rings come in to town and do a ton of rogue hookups with impunity, then the cable company leaves and you have a cycle of degradation in the quality of life. Preventing organized crime is why it is a federal offense. Of course,…

> It is not unreasonable for theft of property to carry the possibility of criminal charges. There is no theft. In the digital world there's merely copying, but in this case it was just tuning into an existing signal with a wire. Theft of property would require that you broke into HBO's office and stole the master tapes, for example.

Yes, thanks, as to copyright you are correct. I believe unless chattel is involved, it is called unauthorized reproduction and duplication rather than theft.

As to the telecom aspect, it can go either way. In Canada, it is considered theft to use a telecommunications service without the rights to do so. Under USA federal criminal law, I believe it is just referred to as unauthorized reception.

Post reply on HN