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An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

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Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really; the argument would be that it creates a crime only Hindus can be accused of. A Muslim or Christian or Sikh Indian, Pakistani, etc., would not be targets for caste discrimination lawsuits, under the logic. Of course, as a legal matter, that's not true; anyone could be accused of caste discrimination if the law passes, whatever their religion, race, or national origin.

I wonder if they’re going to challenge it based on freedom of religion (similar to Christianity and discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation).

That would certainly be interesting.

Having left law to once again be a software engineer, I almost never find myself curious about the development of caselaw, but I think I'd follow that case lol

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more retroactive. The confederates didn't have any shame about their motivations when they seceded.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but I don't think its true that the claim "we want to secede because of injustices against us" was retroactive. see: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati... "The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Gov…

To complete the sentence you incompletely quoted: "but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right."

What are those "frequent violations of the Constitution"?

> In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

> The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

> This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

> The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

> The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

It's all about the injustice that they are not able to keep slaves like they want to.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more retroactive. The confederates didn't have any shame about their motivations when they seceded.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but I don't think its true that the claim "we want to secede because of injustices against us" was retroactive. see: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati... "The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Gov…

That's the first sentence.

Second sentence:

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."

Third sentence:

"...and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property..." (my emphasis)

C'mon.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#264

Has california tried to ban discrimination against asian men?

Yes, that race and gender are already protected classes, so discrimination against Asian men is banned.

cool, someone should tell every corporation and education facility in the state.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#266
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's usually what the literal interpretation of the law would be. However, the courts have set the precedence so that it is more or less legal to consider race to increase "diversity". For example, see Regents of the University of California v. Bakke. [1] With the recent SCOTUS ruling, things have changed a little bit. Unfortunately, that really doesn't prevent people from finding ways to get around the ruling. [2]…

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> requests to stop.

*request, there was only a single request.

Also, you had already applied a whole lot of restrictions to my account before the "request", without any warnings or explanations.

So, who cares? I'm not playing on a level playing field. You are definitely politically biased, in the sense that you don't apply your rules consistently. And you don't seem to care about that.

Also, you guys definitely use dishonest moderation techniques, which you don't like to call "shadow-banning". But the issue isn't what we should call it, it's the dishonesty.

And if the ban was really because you thought I am not contributing to the community (and just using it as tool for "ideological battle), then why one of my submissions is on the front-page at this very moment? [1]

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368148

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only basing this on what I've read in the comments: I can see why people would be against creating another identity group. Labeling people into further and further refined identities and pushing victimhood on people in certain labels has a downside. I don't personally know enough to have a side in this, and I don't live there anyway, just speculating why some might disagree with it. Certainly if we end up with "p…

Protected classes and diversity quotas are nearly unrelated. For example, I have never heard of a hiring quota for people without arms, but they are certainly a protected class.

>Protected classes and diversity quotas are nearly unrelated.

That's not true. Here is what EEOC says it includes:

race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), national origin, age (40 or older), disability and genetic information (including family medical history).[1]

So it's not clear why caste discrimination doesn't already fall under religious discrimination and most of these groups are associated with diversity quotas. That's not a clearly defined concept but we all generally associate diversity quotas with race, gender identity, and ethnicity.

I generally think there is a big overlap between diversity quotas and protected classes. It's a clear logical link.

If caste were added to diversity quotas (or even protected status) I just think it would create perplexing situations where a totally foreign concept of caste is used to justify things in American law like protecting low caste voter rights despite no history of that ever being a problem or suing non-Hindus for caste discrimination under disparate impact legal concepts despite no animus. Or universities in the US tracking caste in DEI statements and admissions essays which they consider for adversity scores. Would that be fair to Americans? Is there even proof that low caste Indians are generally facing adversity in the US or is it only in specific situations with other Indians? What if they actually earn more than the average US income but get added to diversity quotas?

[1]: https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/3-who-protecte...

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#268
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> requests to stop. *request, there was only a single request. Also, you had already applied a whole lot of restrictions to my account before the "request", without any warnings or explanations. So, who cares? I'm not playing on a level playing field. You are definitely politically biased, in the sense that you don't apply your rules consistently. And you don't seem to care about that. Also, you guys definitely use d…

I've replied to your arguments, which are bogus, in detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37384133.

Far from not playing on a level field, we cut you way more slack than you had any reason to expect, given how badly you've been breaking both the letter and spirit of HN's rules.

The restrictions you're taking about, such as rate-limiting, apply to accounts regardless of what ideological flavor they favor, so none of that is relevant. The way to not get restricted is to use the site as intended. That's not bias, that's just trying to have a particular kind of site. This tedious mentality of turning everything one doesn't like into "bias against me" is one of the many tedious things that make ideological battle off topic for HN in the first place.

p.s. I'm sorry for saying "requests" if there was only formal request, but I've replied to you so much that I don't believe you didn't get the message.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#269

This has nothing to do with civil rights, it’s just a continuation of colonialism and the rich white man’s “divide and conquer” ideology. They have Modi, Sunak, Vivek is coming, and pretty much every executive team of every major tech company is dominated by people from the Indian subcontinent. Let’s not be fooled here folks, this is cultural oppression and warfare in a hidden form. Why else of all people is Wahab dr…

Modi is the Prime Minister of India, a position generally held by Indians.

Vivek isn't likely to win the primary.

Where's the oppression?

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#270

Has anybody noticed requests for referrals from Indian students/fresh grads flooding Linkedin? Is this a caste thing? What kind of referral you can expect from a complete stranger other than "This person is of the right origin for this job"? I am not an Indian and cannot tell which one is which caste but I figure they just mass-mail everyone.

It's not a caste thing, let's not make everything a caste thing. I've got similar messages from many Asians in general.

It's based on a bunch of blogs/influencers asking folks to always reach out to someone in a company on LinkedIn and ask for a referral even if you don't know them.

A referral is not a recommendation. Most companies have referral programs where they can refer pretty much anyone and you don't explicitly have to know them. Referrals kind of help people get ahead of queue when HR is reviewing the application in the first phase.

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