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An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

politico.com

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Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#241

Post by uptownfunk »

0xDEF wrote: post #184
uptownfunk wrote: post #45

This has nothing to do with civil rights, it’s just a continuation of colonialism and the rich white man’s “divide and conquer” ideology. They have Modi, Sunak, Vivek is coming, and pretty much every executive team of every major tech company is dominated by people from the Indian subcontinent. Let’s not be fooled here folks, this is cultural oppression and warfare in a hidden form. Why else of all people is Wahab dr…

>Modi, Sunak, Vivek I bursted out laughing. Imagine comparing major world leaders with some right-wing techbro troll.

After Trump, Vivek is winning is most betting pools.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#242

Post by hef19898 »

FreshStart wrote: post #166
tremon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe caste discrimination in the US is primarily a SE-Asian phenomenon, but there's plenty examples of caste systems in African nations as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_systems_in_Africa?useski...

Question: Is social discrimination based on wealth via witchcraft banned? In Africa those who are entrapaneurial and socially stick out, get hammered in by traditional witchcraft religions..

From what I read, it is rather "witches" that get hammered down, quite literally, instead of dpimg the hammering of poor entrepreneurs.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#243

Post by catgary »

chargingmarmot wrote: post #225
mkoubaa wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more retroactive. The confederates didn't have any shame about their motivations when they seceded.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but I don't think its true that the claim "we want to secede because of injustices against us" was retroactive. see: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati... "The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Gov…

The injustices being, primarily, that they were no longer allowed to engage in chattel slavery.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#244

Post by bandyaboot »

chargingmarmot wrote: post #237
bandyaboot wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t necessarily retroactive, but it was always pretense. edit: see Texas’ declaration of secession for what it looked like when they weren’t shy about saying the quiet part out loud.

This one is called a circumstantial ad hominem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial

Not exactly sure what you’re getting at. Use your words.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#245

Post by mkoubaa »

catlover76 wrote: post #232

I am surprised nobody in this thread or in the article mentioned that Wahab is Muslim (or at least was raised as such)--like, I'm surprised nobody is lobbing allegations of intentional anti-Hindu bias stemming from her own religious background. (To be clear, I assume her motivations are genuinely altruistic, I'm just saying it seems like an obvious line of argument for someone who is opposed to the measure)

This actually helps me understand why the negative tone of some of the comments on this thread that mentioned her. At first I thought it was because she was a progressive.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#246

Post by bandyaboot »

catgary wrote: post #243
chargingmarmot wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but I don't think its true that the claim "we want to secede because of injustices against us" was retroactive. see: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati... "The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Gov…

The injustices being, primarily, that they were no longer allowed to engage in chattel slavery.

What Texas deemed “odious unconstitutional restrictions”.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#247

Post by mkoubaa »

uptownfunk wrote: post #236
mkoubaa wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what point you're making

And that’s the whole problem. We have lost the point. Divorces are increasing, single parents, single moms are increasing, kids growing up lost in broken homes, a crumbling education system shifting to only individuals who can afford private schools, crime increasing, social media toxicity. But no no no it’s casteism that’s the problem, let’s legislate on that and pat ourselves on the back. Wake up people, your natio…

I once edited a code comment that had a typo because I happened to notice it as I was glancing through. At the time, there were serious problems with the architecture and design of the codebase. Was I wrong to do that?

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#248

Post by catlover76 »

recroad wrote: post #26

This article didn’t speak about why people are opposed to it. I’m still clueless on that point.

The article does try to allude to the reason, it's just poorly written.

Basically, many Hindus feel this is a tort only Hindus can be liable for. For example, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam do not have caste systems--thus, the logic goes, you could never sue a Jew, Christian, or Muslim for this, yet you could sue a Hindu for it. Moreover, many Hindus view it as simply carrying the strong connotation that there is something uniquely wrong with Hinduism that must be legally "fixed" this way.

To use an argument nobody in the article or this thread has raised, but which seems to me like one of the strongest ones someone who opposes the law could actually muster, remember those laws in the South banning "Shari'a Law"? Those were clearly anti-Muslim publicity stunts; any practical danger posed by Shari'a Law is already handled by the American legal system. One could see a Hindu feeling that this is an analogous thing that is mainly about singling out Hindus because existing anti-discrimination law should be sufficient.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#249

Post by hef19898 »

version_five wrote: post #46
grayhatter wrote: post #13

As someone completely ignorant in this cultural phenomenon, given it seems to be hurting some people what are the arguments for not banning it as discrimination? (I was hoping to read at least one in the article, but perhaps I'm blind?)

I'm only basing this on what I've read in the comments: I can see why people would be against creating another identity group. Labeling people into further and further refined identities and pushing victimhood on people in certain labels has a downside. I don't personally know enough to have a side in this, and I don't live there anyway, just speculating why some might disagree with it. Certainly if we end up with "p…

Those caste based identity groups exist for a couple of millenia already. It is the people who benefit from those existing identity groups that oppose the bill.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#250

Post by catgary »

ramraj07 wrote: post #43

If I have to count the number of times someone senior to me or some colleague has judged me or severed ties with me because of my caste, it will be 8-10. All in the United States. If anything it’s far worse here than when I grew up in India. I’m not of the “lowest caste” as it’s perceived but by looks I am often mistaken to be a Brahmin, one of the highest ones. So my fellow Brahmins get offended when I’m not strictl…

I can’t find the article now, but a Canadian doctor with Dalit ancestry (I think he grew up here) was in the news for firing a medical receptionist on the spot after she made a comment about lower castes.

It kind of sucks that South Asians apparently need to be singled out like this, but it seems like a pretty cut-and-dried civil rights issue.

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