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John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

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Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#91

Post by inglor_cz »

halicarnassus wrote: post #72

It's a boring stereotype of good and evil, which threw almost half the world's population from the wrong side of the iron curtain under the bus. It chastises the behavior of those people while praising their own behavior, even though it's essentially the same. It sees heroes in spies, even though they are villains. Each side thinks, that they are on the right side. Edit: Even though the novel tries to point this out…

"which threw almost half the world's population from the wrong side of the iron curtain under the bus."

I am one of those people. We didn't get to choose, but most of us hated the regimes that ruled us. I am fine with their portrayal as prisons of nations, because that is what they were. No need to whitewash Communism.

The Soviet empire was brutal and evil, and I am not at all surprised that a former KGB thug now started the biggest land war in Europe since 1945. It perfectly fits the imperial mentality of the Siloviki [0], who all made their early careers in Soviet armed forces and secret police.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silovik

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#92

Post by kramerger »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #39

The adaptation of "The Night Manager" is excellent IMO. It's a miniseries of sorts (only 6 episodes), however Hugh Laurie & Tom Hiddleston deliver top-notch performances. It's available on Prime Video and other streaming services in the US.

You forget the academy award winning Olivia Coleman

She was heavily pregnant when shooting the night manager and nobody noticed.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#93

Post by matthewdgreen »

arethuza wrote: post #85
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's maybe one of the 3 best drama series of the last 20 years, and easily one of the 5 best. For a (nonfic) book in the same vein, try The Billion Dollar Spy.

I can recommend "The Spy and the Traitor" on Oleg Gordievsky, in particular the part about the exfiltration reads like a spy novel even though its all factual! Right down to the local ambassador (I think it was) who wanted to stop the operation but it was escalated all the way to Thatcher who was at Balmoral at the time and who was outraged at the idea that the UK wouldn't try and rescue him.

After reading that book I could not shake the feeling that Gordievsky’s defection was “too good to be true.” The intelligence he exfiltrated (with very few exceptions) was hugely beneficial in creating a back-channel between the USSR’s leadership and the West; his “arrest and interrogation” in Moscow was completely inept and even the use of truth drugs didn’t work, and the KGB somehow managed to leave him free to escape surveillance; the KGB was completely unable to detect and prevent his escape even though he got drunk and wandered around acting suspiciously; and the second KGB defector who “confirmed the legitimacy of” Gordievsky’s defection suspiciously re-defected right back to Moscow following his own interrogation. The whole thing felt extremely suspicious.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#95

Post by instagib »

appplication wrote: post #80
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #32

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

Tangent: is anyone familiar with a good app to help make a note of what shows you want to watch later? I know Letterboxd sort of does this for movies, but ( last I checked) they ignore the existence of TV. Each platform has its own short implementation of watch lists but they’re all pretty half baked. Is there good 3rd party app?

AddToTheList

Emails for new episode reminders of shows you think may or may not be cancelled. Top 10 show/movies list for networks.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#97

Post by tptacek »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #39

The adaptation of "The Night Manager" is excellent IMO. It's a miniseries of sorts (only 6 episodes), however Hugh Laurie & Tom Hiddleston deliver top-notch performances. It's available on Prime Video and other streaming services in the US.

I mean, if we're talking television adaptations, the BBC Tinker and Smiley's People are hard to top; Alec Guinness is George Smiley.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#98

Post by tptacek »

halicarnassus wrote: post #72

It's a boring stereotype of good and evil, which threw almost half the world's population from the wrong side of the iron curtain under the bus. It chastises the behavior of those people while praising their own behavior, even though it's essentially the same. It sees heroes in spies, even though they are villains. Each side thinks, that they are on the right side. Edit: Even though the novel tries to point this out…

These books are famous for doing basically the opposite thing. I won't spoil the ending of this book, but, I mean, it couldn't really be clearer.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#99

Post by hollerith »

halicarnassus wrote: post #72

It's a boring stereotype of good and evil, which threw almost half the world's population from the wrong side of the iron curtain under the bus. It chastises the behavior of those people while praising their own behavior, even though it's essentially the same. It sees heroes in spies, even though they are villains. Each side thinks, that they are on the right side. Edit: Even though the novel tries to point this out…

Have you read even one chapter of the novel?

Although he is fascinated by the craft of spying (and I can see why some people might find that objectionable or regrettable) Le Carre does not engage in the moral stereotyping or moral certainty you describe.

Also, spies probably save lives: if for example the Kremlin had been more skilled at collecting and analyzing information about Ukraine's military capabilities, they probably wouldn't have invaded.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#100

Post by Arbeitmachtfrei »

hristov wrote: post #50

I really liked the book, and recommend it wholeheartedly, with the note that one should have some good knowledge about the cold war to understand it. I do not agree with the review though. Spoilers ahead. The novel isn't about "about a lasting, even defiant humanism in the face of battling ideologies". The humanism wasn't very lasting or defiant. The most likeably and humanist character -- the pretty jewish girl, was…

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