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An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

politico.com

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Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#41

Post by PrimeMcFly »

thegreenswede wrote: post #23
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s dumb. They’re trying to get caste codified and defined where all it will do is extend the longevity of a system that is genuinely on its way to being forgotten, even in India.

It's absolutely not forgotten in India. Maybe openly talking about in terms of 'caste', sure. But I just visited India for over a month and it was extremely clear they bucket each other into groups. And it's also very alive here in the US. Recently a friend at an ivy league mentioned that an 'upper class' Indian refused to work with a lower class one for their lab's research. Just straight up said he would not intera…

[flagged]

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#42

Post by suoduandao3 »

kashunstva wrote: post #14

> “A lot of staff asked, ‘What is caste?’” Wait - these staffers are working in government but know so little about world history and culture that they’re clueless about caste? Maybe that’s part of the problem of getting progressive consensus on this bill.

I'd say there's a difference between being clueless and having a clear definition everyone agrees on. I have an idea of what the caste system is, but if I tried to explain it exhaustively I'm sure I'd get a lot of details wrong.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#43

Post by ramraj07 »

If I have to count the number of times someone senior to me or some colleague has judged me or severed ties with me because of my caste, it will be 8-10. All in the United States. If anything it’s far worse here than when I grew up in India.

I’m not of the “lowest caste” as it’s perceived but by looks I am often mistaken to be a Brahmin, one of the highest ones. So my fellow Brahmins get offended when I’m not strictly vegetarian, and get more so to learn that I’m not Brahmin or that I believe India should remain secular.

I’d advise anyone not fully informed to not give too much credence to people opposing this legislation; I spend a lot of time weeding and working around them and can assure you this is a real thing and should be codified just to remind them what America should stand for.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#44

Post by edgarvaldes »

As an outsider: Is there going to be people that now will openly admit they are low caste in an effort to be a protected class?

That's the only reason I see as to why some people are against the proposal: people will start talking more and more about caste in a country and a culture where this does not exist.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#45

Post by uptownfunk »

This has nothing to do with civil rights, it’s just a continuation of colonialism and the rich white man’s “divide and conquer” ideology. They have Modi, Sunak, Vivek is coming, and pretty much every executive team of every major tech company is dominated by people from the Indian subcontinent. Let’s not be fooled here folks, this is cultural oppression and warfare in a hidden form. Why else of all people is Wahab driving this.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#46

Post by version_five »

grayhatter wrote: post #13

As someone completely ignorant in this cultural phenomenon, given it seems to be hurting some people what are the arguments for not banning it as discrimination? (I was hoping to read at least one in the article, but perhaps I'm blind?)

I'm only basing this on what I've read in the comments: I can see why people would be against creating another identity group. Labeling people into further and further refined identities and pushing victimhood on people in certain labels has a downside. I don't personally know enough to have a side in this, and I don't live there anyway, just speculating why some might disagree with it.

Certainly if we end up with "people from Caste X are encouraged to apply" I can see that as offputting.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#47

Post by margalabargala »

whats_a_quasar wrote: post #16

I'm legitimately confused about the strength of opposition to the measure. It seems like it should be a small, uncontroversial, update to protected categories. Are people opposing the term "caste" appearing in U.S. law? Is the concern that the law will cause other Americans to judge Indian/Nepalese/Sri Lankan communities? If anyone here can explain the emotional significance of the bill to someone who is not South As…

What's mentioned in the article is that as caste is a primarily SE Asian phenomenon, this is a bill that targets SE Asians. People tend not to like being singled out on the basis of their race.

Mentioned in the article was one person who tried to address this by banning discrimination "on the basis of ancestry, including caste" which seems to me to be a completely reasonable adjustment.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#48

Post by hermannj314 »

kashunstva wrote: post #14

> “A lot of staff asked, ‘What is caste?’” Wait - these staffers are working in government but know so little about world history and culture that they’re clueless about caste? Maybe that’s part of the problem of getting progressive consensus on this bill.

It also seems prudent when creating a law that mentions caste that someone who, after reading the bill, still doesn't know what caste is, has a legitimate criticism.

We define the word "motor vehicle" in most Codes of Law as well. The existence of the precise definition isn't for people totally ignorant to the existence of the automobile.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#49

Post by Glyptodon »

thegreenswede wrote: post #23
mortureb wrote: post #2

It’s dumb. They’re trying to get caste codified and defined where all it will do is extend the longevity of a system that is genuinely on its way to being forgotten, even in India.

It's absolutely not forgotten in India. Maybe openly talking about in terms of 'caste', sure. But I just visited India for over a month and it was extremely clear they bucket each other into groups. And it's also very alive here in the US. Recently a friend at an ivy league mentioned that an 'upper class' Indian refused to work with a lower class one for their lab's research. Just straight up said he would not intera…

Something like that should be grounds for expulsion IMO.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#50

Post by zozbot234 »

whats_a_quasar wrote: post #22
kashunstva wrote: post #14

> “A lot of staff asked, ‘What is caste?’” Wait - these staffers are working in government but know so little about world history and culture that they’re clueless about caste? Maybe that’s part of the problem of getting progressive consensus on this bill.

To be fair, caste has no direct analog in U.S. or European culture. It isn't shocking that a staffer in the California state government would need to be educated about an issue, the first time it's become a political issue in the U.S.

> caste has no direct analog in U.S. or European culture

Wait, what? Systemic racism in what's now the U.S. was literally codified as a caste system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta And we're still dealing with the legacy of that, many centuries since.

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