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I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

theintercept.com

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Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#31

Post by true_religion »

intrasight wrote: post #22
brianwawok wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are cool with private industry making millions on the back of “captive” slave labor markets for $1 an hour?

UNICOR is a wholly owned government corporation not a private company. Average cost to taxpayers per incarcerated person is about $100K. So let them work for free up until that amount. But even if it were private, how ethically is this worse than private companies making billions building weapons of mass destruction? Or platforms of mass surveillance?

Unless you actually use a WMD, the moral cost of simply having it in storage is nothing.

I disapprove of my government using WMDs and I also disapprove of my government enslaving murderers. Whom benefits is besides the point.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#32

Post by [deleted] »

Pigalowda wrote: post #19
pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#33

Post by emidln »

It's a travesty that slavery is still legal in the USA. These slaves also compete against free citizens who would otherwise be employed for these positions. UNICOR isn't just stealing from inmate slaves, it is stealing from average americans who would otherwise be employed by factories making stuff that, by law, must be purchased from a company that makes in America.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#34

Post by nextnewaccount »

Pigalowda wrote: post #19
pseudotrash wrote: post #10

Whether someone is a criminal or not doing this work is besides the point. The person is being punished for the crime through incarceration. Having to serve as a slave in that system should be illegal. This is btw also common practice in Germany and France. Prisoners who want access to sports, more than 1 shower a week, a TV/radio, etc ... are only able to do so when taking part in prison work. Edit: And whether one…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#35

Post by bdcravens »

Pigalowda wrote: post #29
bdcravens wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really make for a compelling argument, as it's an appeal to authority without substantiation ("the majority agree with me, so I must be right") Plus, it's a "what if" statement that completely ignores our form of government (ie, the US doesn't have national referendums)

[flagged]

Actually, most laws aren't in the constitution, but rather, are encoded in laws as voted on by the federal or state legislatures.

Our nation doesn't have popular sovereignty; we are based on representatives to presumably propose and vote on laws in our best interests. (Otherwise we likely wouldn't have income tax or speed limits). Remember, there was a time when a large portion of our nation thought owning humans and forcing them to work under inhumane conditions was acceptable.

However for this conversation, I'd use the spirit of checks and balances as the rule of law. The legal system has a conflict of interest when it has discretion to incarcerate those it can profit from. I agree with another comment of yours - labor to support the system is ok (since that's fairly self-balancing); labor to profit the prison system isn't.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#36

Post by jjj123 »

intrasight wrote: post #22
brianwawok wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are cool with private industry making millions on the back of “captive” slave labor markets for $1 an hour?

UNICOR is a wholly owned government corporation not a private company. Average cost to taxpayers per incarcerated person is about $100K. So let them work for free up until that amount. But even if it were private, how ethically is this worse than private companies making billions building weapons of mass destruction? Or platforms of mass surveillance?

Who said it was worse? They can all be unethical.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#37

Post by Simulacra »

I am conflicted about prison labor. When I lived in SF I volunteered at Alcatraz and remember the things produced there in the distant past. Everyone has heard of license plates. I think labor for prisoners is a good thing if it produces something good for society.

However, in my opinion the conditions in American prisons are awful to bordering inhumane. America's penal system is grossly underfunded rendering most rehabilitation efforts meaningless. When the system is properly funded and managed I think labor will see a very meaningful component of that.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#38

Post by Simulacra »

CottonMcKnight wrote: post #27
pasttense01 wrote: post #9

[flagged]

Prison-for-profit, either privately-run, with slave labor, or both, creates perverse incentives to convict more people of crimes and to keep them incarcerated longer. This is not just hypothetical. The notorious Pennsylvania 'kids-for-cash' case was particularly egregious. https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-ma...

Another great article when a reporter went undercover. Private prisons are a vicious cycle of depravity.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-pri...

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#39

Post by Pigalowda »

bdcravens wrote: post #35
Pigalowda wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Actually, most laws aren't in the constitution, but rather, are encoded in laws as voted on by the federal or state legislatures. Our nation doesn't have popular sovereignty; we are based on representatives to presumably propose and vote on laws in our best interests. (Otherwise we likely wouldn't have income tax or speed limits). Remember, there was a time when a large portion of our nation thought owning humans and…

The 13th amendment

“Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

The US has popular sovereignty- just not pure democracy. I’m ending this conversation for the sake of my sanity.

Re: I worked in federal prison sweatshops for 23 cents an hour

#40

Post by mindslight »

bdcravens wrote: post #15

Some states like Texas don't even pay inmates for work.

I think this might be better, for similar reasons as why the daycare that started charging a late fee ended up with more late parents (by moving from a social dynamic to a financial one).

If forced labor is just part of the sentence, we can still argue over whether that is unjust punishment or not just like we do with the death penalty. But otherwise that's just how it is. Whereas "paying" inmates tens of cents an hour (3% of minimum wage) is a slap in the face from pretending it's some kind of voluntary transaction.

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