I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency • Hacker News Board

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#221

Post by Tokumei-no-hito » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #175

arrowsmith wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but how big can the expenses have been? I've worked as a freelance solo dev (sadly for far less than $500k/year) and the difference between my revenue and profit was close to zero. Expenses included accountancy costs and the occasional new laptop or whatever bit of hardware I could justifiably call a business expense, but it was a tiny fraction of my revenue.

If you are paying taxes, you should get a new accountant.

What do you mean by this? When I was freelancing the taxes were very steep (US). I felt the system promoted people working for corps.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#222

Post by jvanderbot » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

JackMorgan wrote: post #219

dmje wrote: post #105

12 years into running a tiny digital consultancy with my wife. We've used an "associate" model for all that time - a posh way of saying "a network of trusted freelancers". We've deliberately chosen not to take on staff. We could have grown at many points along the way but haven't wanted to. Instead we've stayed small, focused and profitable. The benefits to growing would have been being able to take on bigger gigs, b…

Same as what my wife and I are doing. Together we make enough in 10 hours a week to pay for our tiny apartment, 16 year old car, insurance, and healthy veggie diet. The rest of the week? Well, this year we're ultra-marathon training, volunteer firefighting, backpacked the first half of the Appalachian trail, crew on a racing sailboat, and running a charity teaching apprentices how to be software engineers (got two in…

That's awesome, but I sincerely hope you are also saving enough to retire. Each to their own, but I'd work 20hrs vs 10, and half my career.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#223

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

candiddevmike wrote: post #83

beezlewax wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I feel I work harder than most people on my team. I always go for stories in areas that are more complex than the rest or areas that are new to me. I'm always trying to learn more to keep ahead of the rest. My performance reviews are always "exceeds expectations", but I haven't seen how this benefits anyone other than the company so far. Maybe I should just take it more easy but I feel li…

Not to be discouraging, but promotions rarely go to top performers in the sense of what you're doing. They go to movers and shakers, folks with heavy soft skills who routinely interact with skip levels and the like. Their work output is marginal to the influence they command. Basically, you're most likely being taken advantage of and will never be properly rewarded for what you're doing, IME.

Truth. Been learning this the hard way, myself. But what do you do when you've never been one with heavy soft skills? When schmoozing has never been natural or enjoyable? Is there really nothing more than either choosing to suck it up and accept your fate or else force yourself to be what you're not?

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#224

Post by benjaminwootton » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #91

Respectable move. My primary complaint with solo-turned-agency people is how grifty they get. As a solo, the job is to add value and make the customer happy so you build your reputation. There are definitely solo contractor grifters out there but they usually struggle with the reputation issue. Agencies develop a grifty dynamic where they realize that their job is to sell themselves and as many headcount and hours as…

This is not a very charitable read of the agency or consultancy business model.

What you call grift is actually sales. Most business in the world are incentivised to grow and scale, so that's a given if it's done ethically.

As a buyer, I would rather work with an agency or a consultancy, given enough budget. The advantages are:

- I don't have to source, manage and pay individual contractors. - If a team member isn't right then the agency will switch them out quickly. - There is one throat to choke. - There should be at least some institutional knowledge in the agency. - The agency will provide oversight, be it from leadership or a billable PM resource.

I have built a few products for startups and my own projects over the last few years, and even with a budget as small as $50-$100k I would rather work with an "agency" with a thin layer of management even though I am very technical. It is much easier to manage and less risky than betting on 1-n individuals.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#225

Post by datavirtue » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

boredemployee wrote: post #142

dmje wrote: post #105

12 years into running a tiny digital consultancy with my wife. We've used an "associate" model for all that time - a posh way of saying "a network of trusted freelancers". We've deliberately chosen not to take on staff. We could have grown at many points along the way but haven't wanted to. Instead we've stayed small, focused and profitable. The benefits to growing would have been being able to take on bigger gigs, b…

Had a similar experience for 6 years. But the downside of not being big is that your business can die in big crisis , as happened to mine when covid started.

You have to save like an old farmer. Money goes in bank, needs pried out with a 20ft crowbar. It's not what you make, it's what you keep.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#226

Post by commonlisp94 » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

matthewcford wrote: post #122

dmje wrote: post #105

12 years into running a tiny digital consultancy with my wife. We've used an "associate" model for all that time - a posh way of saying "a network of trusted freelancers". We've deliberately chosen not to take on staff. We could have grown at many points along the way but haven't wanted to. Instead we've stayed small, focused and profitable. The benefits to growing would have been being able to take on bigger gigs, b…

I’ve run a 15-person agency for 14 years (bootstrapping), and the stress can’t be underestimated. I know plenty of agencies who have either switched to products or just sold up / closed. Using associates is a good option if you have a good network, however, it can be just as stressful if they don’t deliver.

> switched to products

This is always a temptation for agencies which almost never works out. They underestimate the effort to build a product. They also typically don't have the skill or experience to build a high quality product that can compete with the whole world.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#227

Post by JackMorgan » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #222

JackMorgan wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as what my wife and I are doing. Together we make enough in 10 hours a week to pay for our tiny apartment, 16 year old car, insurance, and healthy veggie diet. The rest of the week? Well, this year we're ultra-marathon training, volunteer firefighting, backpacked the first half of the Appalachian trail, crew on a racing sailboat, and running a charity teaching apprentices how to be software engineers (got two in…

That's awesome, but I sincerely hope you are also saving enough to retire. Each to their own, but I'd work 20hrs vs 10, and half my career.

Wise advice indeed. There's a fine line between "working to to live" and living carelessly. I would hope anyone attempting the same thing ensure they have a solid plan for the eventuality of old age and/or broken wrists, blindness, etc.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#228

Post by leros » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

I'm feeling something similar now. I'm doing freelance work about 20 hours a week making my previous income level. So far each project has ended because the company wants me to go full time with them. The challenge hasn't been finding work, it's been keeping it part-time free lance or quitting.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#229

Post by heyjamesknight » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #11

Agencies charge like a very good contractor but use midrange to lousy contractors/employees to do most of the work, and bring the good ones in only in need. It’s selling the difference between the two.

There are a lot of agencies out there with diverse business models attached.

We charge like a low-to-mid-range US developer but only employ high-range Latin American devs. We invest heavily in those devs and their training. They get paid handsomely, our clients get top-notch work at a bargain, and we handle all the bullshit of international management and payments.

We're not all evil.

Re: I don’t want to grow my freelance design studio into an agency

#230

Post by heyjamesknight » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 2:49 PM UTC

cambaceres wrote: post #195

Has anyone here had any positive experiences of growing their freelance business to an agency with employees? I'm currently considering to do it myself but I'm getting a bit hesitant after reading this thread.

I've had success. Started as a freelancer. Moved to a me + contractor model. Now have 30 employees in 6 countries. On target to hit ~$2M in revenue this year.

I love it. I started my career as a super nerdy systems programmer. Now I get to jump between client work, sales & marketing, finance & strategy, and—my absolute favorite part—coaching and supporting the amazing technical professionals we have on our team, helping them become the best version of themselves as they can.

My email is in my bio if you want to chat.