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Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

ian-leslie.com

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Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#161
Ironically this article is in itself a compelling narrative.

You might even call it a dramatic story! :-)

Joking aside: I found this very interesting, probably because it's a topic I have literally zero exposure to normally. Now I'd like to hear the other side.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#162

I don't think "Stories are bad for your intelligence" is the right conclusion here, more like "ideologically motivated thinking is bad for your intelligence". As another piece of evidence for this I can recall from Superforecasters that the ones who did the worst at forecasting were ideologically motivated people and people with "one big idea".

Stories make things memorable. That is useful and not bad for intelligence. Simple example: An apple dropped on his head and so he discovered gravity.

Story telling is a tool which can be misused to make wrong or bad things memorable.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#164
post #158

> Bulstrode hasn’t yet responded to Jelf or Howes in public, but it’s hard to see how her paper can be creditably defended. > I doubt that Bulstrode set out to deceive. No, I think she did. If your intentions are good, you would address the concerns and correct the record. Those around her have a _duty_ to strongly encourage her to do so, otherwise they are complicit. > It’s one thing for a young and passionate acade…

    They are leaving academia and receiving a minimum of double salary in the private sector.
Historians? If so, can you name a few example? I find this hard to believe.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#165

We just have to look to History channel to see this effect on the wider public, it was only a matter of time.

The History Channel is entertainment, it never was anything else, especially history.

It was always dramaticised and perhaps from a certain point of view. But they've taken it to the next level, just look at ancient aliens.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#166
I started to hate natratives. The narratives authors construct reflect their biases. If their bias is weird enough it gets popular (because it's not boring). It's most attractive for people that are already (lightly) biased in the same direction. It makes them more biased. All it does is draw people away from correct understanding of objective reality. And yet narratives are praised as a way to understand reality better.

So if you want to indulge in fantasies of twisted minds about how the world works read literature. If you want to improve your model of reality read a coursebook or a manual.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#167
post #161

Ironically this article is in itself a compelling narrative. You might even call it a dramatic story! :-) Joking aside: I found this very interesting, probably because it's a topic I have literally zero exposure to normally. Now I'd like to hear the other side.

By education I am an industrial engineer. I also am a hobby historian, read I like reading on history. As a result, the industrial revolution and historical impact of manufacturing technology is right down my ally. I jave to say, I love it when historians, and those come with all kinds of secondary expertise, try talking about post-industrial technology (and sometimes earlier one, generally zhose are easiwr to understand on a superficial.level, but then some e.g. Roman engineering feats are hard to get without a proper engineering or crafts background) without a solid knowledge basis. Results range from hilarious to ignorant to outright embarassing. Not sure what category the article, and the paper, fall in. I'll settle for hilarious.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#168
post #85
post #19

I would find this piece more convincing if it had sampled stories from different sources in service of its thesis rather than focusing on a single work the author finds particularly galling, as there is no shortage of fictional narratives anywhere — look no further than US state-approved high-school history textbooks. Given the narrowness of the material cited, this piece seems to me like unequal application of skept…

Anytime school textbooks are mentioned I feel the urge to refer anyone who'll listen to the relevant chapter of "Surely You're Joking, Mr Feynman" Feynman is popular around here and rightly so. Blatant corruption from top to bottom is the norm, it would seem. Feynman also loathed psychology and gave it as an example of "Cargo-cult science." Last I heard every single first year psych texbook contained the Stanford pri…

Ironically "Surely You're Joking, Mr Feynman" is a great example of what the article talks about: compelling and repeatable stories whose basis in fact is often extremely dubious.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#169

I don't think "Stories are bad for your intelligence" is the right conclusion here, more like "ideologically motivated thinking is bad for your intelligence". As another piece of evidence for this I can recall from Superforecasters that the ones who did the worst at forecasting were ideologically motivated people and people with "one big idea".

It's interesting to try and define what good and bad forecasting is. When you consider the outsized calamity of black swans, it is practical to have some diversity of prediction, not unanimity around a single prediction.

You don't want to over-value predicting non-extreme events, you need that Israeli 10th man to persuade others of the improbable to ensure your plan is resilient. The insightful ideologue will be right about the intentions of a Hitler... but they also predict a few too many Hitlers.

Re: Historians have an increasingly strong incentive to tell dramatic stories

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The History Channel is entertainment, it never was anything else, especially history.

It was always dramaticised and perhaps from a certain point of view. But they've taken it to the next level, just look at ancient aliens.

Ancient aliens are myth. As shown, the forst contact we had was in 50s, Jeff Goldblum can testify for that (I saw it on TV and in the cinema).

But yes, this whole edutainment thing got way way to far.

Edit: Or aren't they? I think there might be an ancient pyramid under some glacier on some antarctic island...

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