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John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

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Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#41
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is because the novel has entered the subconscious of spy fiction and so many things have been inspired by it intentionally or not that it doesn't seem as fresh as it once did. But at the time, the notion that intelligence work is a dirty game and that everybody follows basically the same rulebook was pretty novel and even shocking. These days this is just generally accepted as true -- even the recent James…

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of…

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Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#42
post #12

If I can compare le Carre with Cormac McCarthy I would say The Spy Who Came in From the Cold is his “The Road”. Its the novel people always recommend and put on “best books” lists because its short, punchy and therefore seems like a good introduction. But both authors have a substantial body of work that much better represents them as authors since it explores the themes that really are uniquely interesting about the…

I think "The Spy" is a better stand-alone book than any of the Smiley trilogy books are. It's not as interesting as Honorable Schoolboy, but it's more tightly plotted and asks some of the same questions in a more interesting way. Cormac McCarthy I'd start with Blood Meridian. But le Carre, I'd start with "Spy".

I think No Country or The Road are much better starting points. McCarthy's style takes some warming up to, especially regarding the terse run-on sentences and his strict lack of punctuation or indication of the speaker during dialogue.

Blood Meridian is a heavy and dense book that is a difficult enough read even after you are somewhat used to his unique style and tone (desolate, gut-wrenching, violent, quasi-mythical, beautiful). I also think it somewhat undeservedly overshadows his other work when it comes to internet discussions.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#43
post #33

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

It's maybe one of the 3 best drama series of the last 20 years, and easily one of the 5 best. For a (nonfic) book in the same vein, try The Billion Dollar Spy.

What are the other four in your best five list?

I really liked The Americans, too.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#44
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

Robert Ludlum had many that were great. The original Bourne Identity got my family hooked. Beware the post death authorized books David Morrel also had some good ones. Brotherhood of the Rose was great.

I was an avid Ludlum reader in my youth and recently revisited them. I was blown away by the cultural shift since then. His protagonists spends half the books arranging to use payphones and rent cars in an anonymous way. I can't tell if the job has got easier or harder since those largely stopped being possible.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#45
post #19
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

> Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? Probably not comparable, but Frederick Forsyth's novels are great. He wrote The Day of the Jackal, The Fourth Protocol, etc. If you want a taste for his books, I would suggest The Devil's Alternative.

Very perceptive recommendation - I love Forsyth’s novels. I feel like they’re a little bit of a guilty pleasure, but damn, that guy can write a thriller.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#46
post #19
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

> Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? Probably not comparable, but Frederick Forsyth's novels are great. He wrote The Day of the Jackal, The Fourth Protocol, etc. If you want a taste for his books, I would suggest The Devil's Alternative.

I always recommend The Dogs of War as a first Forsyth novel, and No Comebacks as a first Forsyth reader.

No Comebacks:

1. Are all short stories, so good for the reader who is not yet invested in Forsyth

2. Starts with the titular story, which (IMO) is a pretty good capture of Forsyth plot and story-telling.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#47
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

I like all of his George Smiley novels. But perhaps the most haunting for me is The Looking Glass War ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looking_Glass_War ). I had just urned 50 when I read it and was actually surrounded by a lot of people ranging 60-80. While a spy novel, it’s almost more of dark comic tragedy on the power of nostalgia. I easily find the storyline transferrable to some of the “established” organi…

Agree, it is very much a dark tragi-comedy.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#48
Complete tangent, but does anyone remember the online puzzle ‘in from the cold’ or its follow-up ‘torment?

It’s what got me into cryptography many years ago - only two people ever completed ‘in from the cold’ if I remember correctly, and nobody completed ‘torment’ but the creator grngecko got hacked/doxed by someone trying to solve ‘torment’ and took them both offline :(

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#49

The adaptation of "The Night Manager" is excellent IMO. It's a miniseries of sorts (only 6 episodes), however Hugh Laurie & Tom Hiddleston deliver top-notch performances. It's available on Prime Video and other streaming services in the US.

It's British. In Britain 6 episodes is a series ;)

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#50
I really liked the book, and recommend it wholeheartedly, with the note that one should have some good knowledge about the cold war to understand it.

I do not agree with the review though. Spoilers ahead. The novel isn't about "about a lasting, even defiant humanism in the face of battling ideologies". The humanism wasn't very lasting or defiant. The most likeably and humanist character -- the pretty jewish girl, was brutally murdered at the berlin wall after all of her dreams were mercilessly destroyed. The other character figured out what was happening to him, but wasn't much defiant, he just played his part like a good soldier even after he knew he was being betrayed and used to kill innocent people. It is a good book, but a very sad one, with a brutal unhappy ending.

But the really scary thing about this novel is something I understood only after reading it for a second time. While the ending was horrible and unhappy from the point of view of ordinary people like me, it was really meant to be a happy ending from the point of view of people that matter -- i.e., Le Carre's bosses at the various spy agencies and the English upper class.

After all it has England winning. And England wins in a very English way, by being smart, calculating, duplicitous, nasty and ruthless and completely free of any higher principles. And especially free of humanism. In other words, very similar to the way England conquered and ruled half the world.

I bet the English upper classes loved to see how nasty and ruthless their spy agencies were and the spy agencies loved how they were portrayed in the novel.

Even the death of the pretty girl is justified if one looks upon it with the logic of the English ruling class. She was after all, a traitor. She was born and raised in England and yet was a communist. Le Carre portrays her very sympathetically as a misguided idealist, but kills her off after all.

Thus I do not agree with the other part of the review, and the usual treatment Le Carre gets. And that is that Le Carre is some kind of dissident showing the bad side of intelligence services against their wishes. I am sure, the book got the full blessing of Mi 6 top brass, if it was not directly ordered by them.

Don't get me wrong, I think Le Carre was a brilliant writer, but on more careful consideration I am pretty sure some of his early works were not the dissident works the entire literary community pretends them to be but straight up public relations for the MI 6.

His next novel, the looking glass war, confirms my suspicions. It is about some government department other than the Circus (which is Le Carre's code name for MI 6) tries to do some spying for themselves independently of the Circus. The upper levels of government fund them because they do not want all the spying competence to be concentrated in one department. Well, that other department fails utterly because of lack of experience, professionalism, training, etc. The moral of the entire story is that the government should not let other departments do any spying, but they should give all the spying missions and all the money to the Circus (i.e., MI 6).

To Le Carres credit, his later novels that I read are genuinely subversive, revealing some uncomfortable truths about power. It seems that after the iron curtain fell, he had much more freedom of speech.

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