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Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

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Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#31

Post by rgoulter »

strongly-typed wrote: post #21
sooheon wrote: post #11

There are a lot of touted ergo features: tenting, concave keywell, l/r split, ortho columns, thumb cluster. Of these, the most important IME is the thumb cluster -- giving more work to your thumbs and taking load off your pinkies. This led me to HHKB JP layout for 80/20 ergo benefit without having to carry two unwieldy halves of a keyboard when I want portability. Still use Kinesis Advantage 2 at home, but nothing be…

Same. I’m actually skeptical of some of the claims, particularly in regards to ortholinear/column stagger key arrangements. In particular I feel like this actually makes the layout worse in some situations. For example, consider the `in` bigram in qwerty. It’s one of the most common bigrams in English, and if you switch to most ergo boards, the distance between those keys will _increase_ which will require a bigger s…

> I’m actually skeptical of some of the claims, particularly in regards to ortholinear/column stagger key arrangements. In particular I feel like this actually makes the layout worse in some situations. For example, consider the `in` bigram in qwerty.

In different arrangements of keys, some words will be easier to type than others (and some will be more difficult).

e.g. Comparing Dvorak and qwerty. -- With the example 'in', both of these letters are on home row on Dvorak, whereas both letters require reaching with the fingers on qwerty.

I don't think it's worth putting strong weight on any one example.

I'd point to the distances between (on a typical keyboard); between FT should be the same as JY; and between FB should be the same as JN. -- But on the traditional row stagger, these distances are absurdly different.

I find it hard to believe that the best arrangement of alphabetical keys would be asymmetrical.

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#32

Post by borissk »

Such keyboards are good for people with wrist, shoulder, blood flow, etc. problems. But for the majority of computer users a regular keyboard is good enough - just take a short rest now and then.

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#33

Post by eviks »

These types of design look awesome, keyboard should be split and it should reflect the physical difference in finger length etc, the only thing missing is one (or two?) tracking points for mouse movements without moving your hand, are there keyboards like that?

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#35

Post by GenericDev »

I just want a freaking vertical keyboard.

I don't understand why this is so freaking hard to find.

Kinesis had the Free Style 2 keyboard[1] that you had to go out of the way to buy a vertical stand with, and it has been my go to keyboard FOR YEARS now because I just can't find any alternatives.

I used to use the Kinesis Advantage keyboards, but they mess with my carpal tunnel. As cool as they are the plastic placement for the wrist rests still mess with you. It's awful if you have carpal tunnel. And yes, everyone is saying they help, but they're still sources of aggravation because you are wresting your wrists on the plastic and compressing them. And yes, you can get some pads, but that really doesn't change the system.

I just want some g- d- vertical keyboards. And no one makes them with good layouts.

I got this crazy battlestation vertical keyboard from Safe Type [2] and I freaking HATED it because their layout puts a bunch of keys in the middle and there's an insane F-row keyset that requires me to move my hands all over the place. It's ridiculous!

How hard is it to get a vertical keyboard with a good keyboard layout?! I'm so scared my free style 2 is going to fail and I'm going to have to go back to a world with terrible keyboards. I even e-mailed Kinesis asking if they were going to go the same route of vertical keyboards and they refuse to. I'm dying here.

At this point I would love if someone made keyboard gloves that let me put them on and wear them to type so I don't have to compress any nerves, but I doubt that will ever happen. I feel like I'm nuts.

[1] https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/

[2] https://www.allthingsergo.com/safetype-keyboard/

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#36

Post by CWIZO »

borissk wrote: post #32

Such keyboards are good for people with wrist, shoulder, blood flow, etc. problems. But for the majority of computer users a regular keyboard is good enough - just take a short rest now and then.

Regular keyboards are why many people end up with wrist/hand/shoulder/etc. pain. Perhaps going as "extreme" as something like Glove80 is unnecessary for most, but I wouldn't recommend a regular keyboard to anyone that types at least a few hours a day.

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#37

Post by Zizizizz »

GenericDev wrote: post #35

I just want a freaking vertical keyboard. I don't understand why this is so freaking hard to find. Kinesis had the Free Style 2 keyboard[1] that you had to go out of the way to buy a vertical stand with, and it has been my go to keyboard FOR YEARS now because I just can't find any alternatives. I used to use the Kinesis Advantage keyboards, but they mess with my carpal tunnel. As cool as they are the plastic placemen…

https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/platform/

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#38

Post by henrik_w »

I had severe problems with RSI many years ago, to the point where I thought I had to give up programming alltogether. I also got an ergonomic keyboard, which helped, and an argonomic pen-like mouse. However, I would say that even more important in getting rid of my problems was the use of a break program. It reminds me to take regular breaks, and prompts me to to stretches throuhgout the day. The combination of these things meant that I recovered completely from my problems.

More info here: https://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#39

Post by microtonal »

matthewtse wrote: post #2

I haven't been following ergonomic keyboards for awhile, but went pretty deep a few years ago back when the Dactyl Manuform and Kinesis were the only names in town. So seeing the Glove80, I was excited to see a new "mass-manufactured" entrant in the space, since dactyl manuforms have to be 3d-printed and handwired, thus meaning they're hard to come by and quite expensive. The glove80 looks interesting, however at $40…

I think one of the issues is that the key wells need to hand soldered, which increases the cost per unit.

You can find well-priced Glove80s sometimes. I was particularly lucky and found one for 150 Euro. But for the other, the 360 Euro was well spent!

At any rate, people spend thousands on a MacBook, but for a product that probably lasts longer and might save your job long-term, we suddenly practice extreme austerity. When I had my brush with wrist pain, I realized that the money spent on a good keyboard, chair, and desk is nothing compared to the income lost if I can’t work until I’m retiring.

Re: Glove80 Ergonomic Keyboard

#40

Post by bartvk »

henrik_w wrote: post #38

I had severe problems with RSI many years ago, to the point where I thought I had to give up programming alltogether. I also got an ergonomic keyboard, which helped, and an argonomic pen-like mouse. However, I would say that even more important in getting rid of my problems was the use of a break program. It reminds me to take regular breaks, and prompts me to to stretches throuhgout the day. The combination of these…

It's also my experience that break reminders prevent wrist pain. For macOS, I recommend Time Out. Actively maintained, with all the options you'd want.

https://dejal.com/timeout/

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