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John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

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Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#11
What I like most about John Le Carre's novels is the length they go in breaking down the bureaucratic, political, and psychological aspects of espionage. Each book is another window into the actual mechanics of intelligence work.

So it's not surprising that quite a bit of common espionage vocab was popularised by him - e.g. "mole", "honey trap", "intelligence customer"

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#12

If I can compare le Carre with Cormac McCarthy I would say The Spy Who Came in From the Cold is his “The Road”. Its the novel people always recommend and put on “best books” lists because its short, punchy and therefore seems like a good introduction. But both authors have a substantial body of work that much better represents them as authors since it explores the themes that really are uniquely interesting about the…

I think "The Spy" is a better stand-alone book than any of the Smiley trilogy books are. It's not as interesting as Honorable Schoolboy, but it's more tightly plotted and asks some of the same questions in a more interesting way.

Cormac McCarthy I'd start with Blood Meridian. But le Carre, I'd start with "Spy".

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#13
post #7
post #2

It was pretty shallow and typical to me. There was very little nuance to both the characters and the story. I don’t really understand the reputation this book enjoys.

I think it is because the novel has entered the subconscious of spy fiction and so many things have been inspired by it intentionally or not that it doesn't seem as fresh as it once did. But at the time, the notion that intelligence work is a dirty game and that everybody follows basically the same rulebook was pretty novel and even shocking. These days this is just generally accepted as true -- even the recent James…

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of it is lost in how much, if you grew up in the culture after it, it just seems normal now. To keep in the Cyberpunk zone, both Neuromancer and Snowcrash are books I almost have a hard time re-reading without reminding myself that everything that feels like trashy cliche now was invented in them.

There's something of a sweet spot for some of this as well. Too old and it's well appreciated as a progenitor of a trope - Checkov, Shakespeare, Beowulf. There's a chunk of things in the last century that haven't quite reached canonical status in that way, but almost definitely will in the next 50-100 years, so people don't quite realize how influential they are yet.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#15
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is because the novel has entered the subconscious of spy fiction and so many things have been inspired by it intentionally or not that it doesn't seem as fresh as it once did. But at the time, the notion that intelligence work is a dirty game and that everybody follows basically the same rulebook was pretty novel and even shocking. These days this is just generally accepted as true -- even the recent James…

Thanks for that insight. I read the book for the first time in 2015, well after it had already established itself. I can see the appeal if it had a revelatory view on spycraft at the time.

Yea, I had the good fortune of reading it in a class in school where we went through a number of spy thriller books as a genre exercise. Reading it alongside something like the original Casino Royale by Ian Fleming is a really interesting pairing. In some ways, it's similar to other splits in genre - Neuromancer vs. Snow Crash, Agatha Christie vs. Conan Doyle. Neither is objectively better, but they both set the tone of the genre for the next century.

Both Fleming and Le Carre had experienced real-world spycraft, and so their competing visions of fiction both had the pedigree of realism, but applied in different ways and with different worldviews.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#16
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is because the novel has entered the subconscious of spy fiction and so many things have been inspired by it intentionally or not that it doesn't seem as fresh as it once did. But at the time, the notion that intelligence work is a dirty game and that everybody follows basically the same rulebook was pretty novel and even shocking. These days this is just generally accepted as true -- even the recent James…

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of…

This isn't a name per se, but I think the effect you're describing is a result of having a really good, original idea without the supporting artistry to create something that is enduringly great. To use your example, consider The Matrix. As a film, it is cheesy. But the quality of the original idea more than made up for the cheesiness at the time of its release. Now that the idea has aged and its originality has worn off, the bad qualities of the movie are more evident. I still love The Matrix, but I understand why people don't. In order to be great for long periods of time, you need the beautiful, original idea, but you also need the master craftsmanship that creates a work that can stand on its own.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#17
post #11

What I like most about John Le Carre's novels is the length they go in breaking down the bureaucratic, political, and psychological aspects of espionage. Each book is another window into the actual mechanics of intelligence work. So it's not surprising that quite a bit of common espionage vocab was popularised by him - e.g. "mole", "honey trap", "intelligence customer"

I love the break down, but also how it paints that there are no saints in the line of work. Everyone is dirty for the most part with grey morales. There are no true 'good' guys or 'bad' guys in Smiley's novels, its just one side trying to out compete the other. With the exception of Smiley himself having the cleanest hands.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#19
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

> Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s?

Probably not comparable, but Frederick Forsyth's novels are great. He wrote The Day of the Jackal, The Fourth Protocol, etc. If you want a taste for his books, I would suggest The Devil's Alternative.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#20
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

Robert Ludlum had many that were great. The original Bourne Identity got my family hooked. Beware the post death authorized books

David Morrel also had some good ones. Brotherhood of the Rose was great.

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