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Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

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Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#61

Post by Rochus »

mariusor wrote: post #60
Rochus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a language implementor myself and just asked for a clear unique selling point of Jai, and guess what, there was indeed one fellow here who didn't question the question, but has personal experience and was able to give me the information I was interested in (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37369342 ), without me having to read or listen through dozens of outdated blog posts and presentations. I still thin…

From what I understood from Blow, a specification at this point would only serve to have other people bike shed about syntax, features, etc. Looking at the explanation you linked, I would say that the author uses the language in a very unidiomatic way (if idiomatic Jai would be a thing :D). It takes a very template focused mindset and uses the features of the language to bastardize and complicate things needlessly (I…

> a specification at this point would only serve to have other people bike shed about syntax, features, etc.

It makes little sense to announce a language with a lot of details over so many years without providing a decent specification. Either the author is interested in feedback, then a specification or language report is the established vehicle among language designers, or he is not interested in feedback, which raises the question why he publishes any details at all.

> It takes a very template focused mindset and uses the features of the language

But as it seems that's a focus point of the language; why otherwise the author would take the effort to even modify structure declarations with compile time expressions.

> that it focuses on the way memory is mapped (similarly to how C does it)

What do you mean by that? And is this really a unique selling point if it is similar to C?

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#62

Post by binary132 »

benj111 wrote: post #40
luckystarr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPL (I'm not talking about AGPL) only forces you to publish the sources if the binary would be published. If you don't have the program you don't have a right to the source.

I think you're missing the point. The source code to the program is available, but the compiler with which to compile that code isn't. To the OP I would say this is opensource. If you received an open source recipe, despite not having a kitchen you could still modify the recipe, pass it on etc. You still have the right to modify this code and pass it on, which is what the opensource licenses generally guarantee, open…

Sounds like a community implementation of a Jai frontend for GCC waiting to happen.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#63

Post by binary132 »

It’s silly that these threads instantly devolve into weirdly personal socio-ideological debates about the merits of the designer, his personality, the community, and his unorthodox approach to the language rather than even a technical discussion. It seems like cloutchasing all the way down.

I also recognize that I am participating in said dynamic.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#64

Post by incrudible »

howinteresting wrote: post #44
ohgodplsno wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Blow is a smart guy who thinks he's far smarter and far more interesting than he really is. Smart people who don't seek out feedback, and especially those who haven't worked in a team environment, tend to be pretty bad at estimating the limit of their capabilities. Does Blow have a mentor? Friends who call his BS out?

He does seek feedback, that is why there is a closed beta. I would say he is quick to flip the bozo bit, and easily irritable, but that is also a consequence of having an audience that is large enough to be annoying but too small to just ignore.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#65

Post by Hamcha »

mariusor wrote: post #46
ohgodplsno wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A good number of your bullet points are factually incorrect and inflammatory. But to reply in the style of Blow: what have _you_ released in the past ten years to talk all this smack?

Please don't adopt this line of reasoning. Anyone's argument doesn't have to stand on their personal achievements and public works. Just because you're not a chef doesn't mean you can't call one out if they put rat poison in your food.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#66

Post by mariusor »

Rochus wrote: post #61
mariusor wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understood from Blow, a specification at this point would only serve to have other people bike shed about syntax, features, etc. Looking at the explanation you linked, I would say that the author uses the language in a very unidiomatic way (if idiomatic Jai would be a thing :D). It takes a very template focused mindset and uses the features of the language to bastardize and complicate things needlessly (I…

> a specification at this point would only serve to have other people bike shed about syntax, features, etc. It makes little sense to announce a language with a lot of details over so many years without providing a decent specification. Either the author is interested in feedback, then a specification or language report is the established vehicle among language designers, or he is not interested in feedback, which ra…

I offered a very bird's eye view of what a newbie understood from the language, not a "unique selling point" because, like I keep failing to make you see, Blow is not trying to "sell it" to anyone.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#67

Post by Rochus »

mariusor wrote: post #66
Rochus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a specification at this point would only serve to have other people bike shed about syntax, features, etc. It makes little sense to announce a language with a lot of details over so many years without providing a decent specification. Either the author is interested in feedback, then a specification or language report is the established vehicle among language designers, or he is not interested in feedback, which ra…

I offered a very bird's eye view of what a newbie understood from the language, not a "unique selling point" because, like I keep failing to make you see, Blow is not trying to "sell it" to anyone.

See e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/selling%20point

> Blow is not trying to "sell it" to anyone.

For that, he is doing a lot of promotion for his new language with all the youtube sessions and blog posts about it.

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#68

Post by incrudible »

Hamcha wrote: post #65
mariusor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good number of your bullet points are factually incorrect and inflammatory. But to reply in the style of Blow: what have _you_ released in the past ten years to talk all this smack?

Please don't adopt this line of reasoning. Anyone's argument doesn't have to stand on their personal achievements and public works. Just because you're not a chef doesn't mean you can't call one out if they put rat poison in your food.

They did not provide an argument, but a barrage of accusations without evidence. I think in that case, it is fair to ask: Who are you, anyway?

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#69

Post by mariusor »

binary132 wrote: post #63

It’s silly that these threads instantly devolve into weirdly personal socio-ideological debates about the merits of the designer, his personality, the community, and his unorthodox approach to the language rather than even a technical discussion. It seems like cloutchasing all the way down. I also recognize that I am participating in said dynamic.

I think that the only purely technical level complaint I have about the language, something that I haven't seen discussed in the docs but bit me because it worked differently than I expected is that return types are not part of a function's typing. Ie, when doing function polymorphism, functions "a :: (b: s32) -> bool" (a function called "a" that accepts a signed 4byte int and returns a boolean) and "a :: (b: s32) -> s32" (a function called "a" that accepts a signed 4byte int and returns a signed 4byte int) trigger a compilation error when you call one of them even if the type of the lvalue is known (either bool or s32).

Re: Focus: A simple and fast text editor written in Jai

#70

Post by VHRanger »

binary132 wrote: post #63

It’s silly that these threads instantly devolve into weirdly personal socio-ideological debates about the merits of the designer, his personality, the community, and his unorthodox approach to the language rather than even a technical discussion. It seems like cloutchasing all the way down. I also recognize that I am participating in said dynamic.

For what it's worth, there's no product yet with Jai so that's all there is to talk about.
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