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Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

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Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#511

Post by lttlrck »

JohnBooty wrote: post #319
hnfong wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your career can be significantly affected by devs fresh from bootcamp, you probably need to sort out your own issues than to complain here mate.

If your career can be significantly affected by devs fresh from bootcamp Well, there are certainly problems if that's the case. But it's not necessarily senior ICs that are the problem. I've experienced a few companies where "boot camp yahoos" wound up essentially running the show to ruinous effect. Why? They had numbers, essentially, and management was too hands-off to prevent it. To give a specific example: we had…

1000's of lines changed to add/remove a field from a form has nothing to do with react. That's just shit design.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#512

Post by mannyv »

hathawsh wrote: post #389
anonyfox wrote: post #359

Stop a second before you go into RSCs. Whatever you want to achieve ultimately is much easier/quicker/scalable done in real fullstack (or classic web-) frameworks! Rails/Django/Laravel/… + Turbolinks/Htmx/… or even sprinkle some light clientside JS for fancyness. Or go best-of-all-worlds if you happen to know Elixir/Phoenix. But don’t continue the descent into RSCs, now matter how many people tweet about it. These fo…

Indeed, RSC reminds me of CORBA [1]. CORBA is a way to mix local components with remote components. CORBA is very mature and works in many languages. So why doesn't everyone use it? I would guess that most developers today have never even heard of it. Why is that? I would suggest that anyone who wants to invent another distributed component architecture should study CORBA and its descendants and why they have never r…

CORBA was a total piece of shit back in the day. Nobody in their right mind would chose it for anything today except as example of "don't do this when you're designing and implementing something."

It's an over engineered overly complicated design that leaves a lot of crucial stuff undefined, which made interoperability impossible. From a performance perspective it was crap. And debugging an implementation was almost impossible.

It's a great example of how architects can destroy a good idea by layering ridiculous amounts of abstraction into an incomprehensible pile of software.

And it shows that architecture without implementation experience should never happen.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#513

Post by bombolo »

satvikpendem wrote: post #434
mavamaarten wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why web development (and python, don't get me started on the pain that is python) is not for me.

What do you code in? For any language if you don't have the toolchain set up, obviously it'll seem laborious to install it, it's not a knock on the framework used on top of the toolchain.

But python is already installed on most linux systems

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#514

Post by colordrops »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #47
colordrops wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just don't even bundle if you can serve your users with ES6 modules.

Performance with native ESM isn't great since you get cascading requests, unless you have very shallow dependency trees.

They work fine for everything that doesn't require immediate response on first load, and even the there are ways to address that - for instance special pages for entry points and/or loading indicators.

For general performance you can cache the modules using a service worker.

In any case they are fine for most use cases.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#515

Post by gmokki »

solardev wrote: post #229
DigitalSea wrote: post #207

I'm old enough to remember when servers rendered everything and you used CSS and Javascript to enhance the pages after they were rendered. The web is in such a dark and overengineered place. It's almost unbelievable. It's why my approach to building apps is server-rendered first and then enhanced after the fact.

As a different perspective, I'm also old enough to remember when CSS and Javascript were invented , and I've been making websites since that time. IMO web dev has never seen better tooling than today, and user experience has improved tremendously over the years. What we used to call AJAX has grown from a neat side toy to a basic part of everyday life in the form of client components and SPAs. The server is still as p…

Why would server side rendering send the entire HTML page on every time? Or lose context or page position? All those have been smoothly handled by pure server side frameworks such as wicket or tapestry for over a decade.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#516

Post by FractalHQ »

mock-possum wrote: post #408
pier25 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not React's fault but the ignorance of the average React dev never stops surprising me. From using divs for buttons or links to this.

Yeah modern JavaScript frameworks heavily discourage semantic markup, and I’m salty about it.

Svelte must be an exception to that rule because semantic html is a first-class citizen.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#517

Post by fortzi »

EricMausler wrote: post #369
datavirtue wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please help the guy before he gets too far along. Some of us might have to work with him. Seriously though, I saw someone described as a 22 yr old software engineer in an article. There is a better term: "Software Engineering Apprentice"

Unionize already. It's not just about wage, it's about assigning appropriate work to peoples level and having them progress through the most efficient steps to mastery while also completing billable hours

Normally workers unionize to improve their poor conditions vs an abusive employer, and when they have little to no ability to find another job for similar/better terms. Is that the situation for software devs where you’re at?

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#518

Post by pier25 »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #488
pier25 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not React's fault but the ignorance of the average React dev never stops surprising me. From using divs for buttons or links to this.

I think a big part of the problem is how online education and bootcamps/college degrees for web-dev are structured. Often times people are so overwhelmed with the stack they are supposed to learn that quite obvious and important stuff gets lost. People just try things out until it works without understanding the underlying structure. If you come from a simpler MVC framework like Rails or Laravel, it enables you to fo…

Yeah the issue is that beginners are not learning web dev or even front end, they are learning React.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#519

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

debaserab2 wrote: post #363
recursivedoubts wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, i'm not google of facebook or ny times or whatever, i'm a lone dev in montana what other options did i have?

People don't realize that many of the dev tools they use they are using more because of the large marketing reach of those dev tools than any objective decision to use the tool. Entire companies have been built around the premise of good developer marketing, and if you're faang, you simply get to impose whatever developer trends you want to see in the market. I'll never forget how wildly popular Stripe became overnig…

Yep. Vercel has raised $300m.

Re: Things I wish I knew before moving 50K lines of code to React Server Components

#520

Post by JohnBooty »

bsenftner wrote: post #409
JohnBooty wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your career can be significantly affected by devs fresh from bootcamp Well, there are certainly problems if that's the case. But it's not necessarily senior ICs that are the problem. I've experienced a few companies where "boot camp yahoos" wound up essentially running the show to ruinous effect. Why? They had numbers, essentially, and management was too hands-off to prevent it. To give a specific example: we had…

You describe the scenario I am complaining about. These boot camp developers do not have the background for large scale engineering, yet get cast into it side by side with real seasoned engineers. However, that real seasoned engineer is a small fraction of the "dev team" and gets overwhelmed by the boot camp developer's group thinking - their opinion is just as good as the guy with the CS degree they figure, after al…

Amen.

    However, that real seasoned engineer is a small 
    fraction of the "dev team" and gets overwhelmed 
    by the boot camp developer's group thinking - 
    their opinion is just as good as the guy with the 
    CS degree they figure, after all, their boot camp 
    crowd seems to win the debates!
Oh my god. So true. Heaven help us.
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