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Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

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161–170 of 179 posts

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#161
post #17

This graph from the 2015 article "Law enforcement took more stuff from people than burglars did last year" really rammed this home for me: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-...

Would Scam Bankman-Fried's Robinhood shares be counted in the number for this year?

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just an empty threat either. It's happened numerous times in NYC when the mayor or city council has attempted to reign in the NYPD, they simply stop responding to calls for service and then blame it on the politicians. Even if it doesn't lead to an uptick in crime, it still angers voters that police won't respond to their calls and they take it out at the polls.

Interesting. Seems like the logical thing to do would be to fire the whole PD and replace them with another group. Except that's basically the model used by secret-police dictatorships (eg. Russia, Iran) and anarchist failed states (eg. Haiti, much of Africa), so it doesn't seem to work very well either. Seems like the root problem is that we grant the state a monopoly on physical violence because the alternative (no…

I remember reading an article about Georgia (the country) successfully doing that with its highway patrol, but I can't find it again.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#163
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tool (boot, glove, knife, hammer, etc) is easily both the means of production and personal property. The distinction is in effect meaningless.

A hammer isn’t a factory. There is a distinction, unless you don’t think industrialization had any effect on society.

The rhetoric around the means of production was initially in reference to slaves. Communism was an offshoot of the abolition movement not in reference to at the time minimal number of factories. And in that context people did abandon slavery.

Even today factories aren’t the means of production, they don’t make houses that’s mostly people with hand tools. Nor do they make food or mine resources etc.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#165
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hammer isn’t a factory. There is a distinction, unless you don’t think industrialization had any effect on society.

The rhetoric around the means of production was initially in reference to slaves. Communism was an offshoot of the abolition movement not in reference to at the time minimal number of factories. And in that context people did abandon slavery. Even today factories aren’t the means of production, they don’t make houses that’s mostly people with hand tools. Nor do they make food or mine resources etc.

What point are you trying to make here? Marx’s writings were based on his observations of factories and industry in England at the time, among other things.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just an empty threat either. It's happened numerous times in NYC when the mayor or city council has attempted to reign in the NYPD, they simply stop responding to calls for service and then blame it on the politicians. Even if it doesn't lead to an uptick in crime, it still angers voters that police won't respond to their calls and they take it out at the polls.

Shit NYPD publicly doxed and threatened the mayor's daughter. I've always known the police were evil but that made me stop and really wonder what sort of constraints municipal politicians are operating under. Like that is very very close to "gloves off" mafia type shit right out in the open. What kinds of threats do they make against those figures in private?

>NYPD publicly doxed and threatened the mayor's daughter

As best I can tell, that is not true.

The Sergeants Benevolent Association, a police union, posted to Twitter a screenshot of Chiara de Blasio’s arrest report, which is a public record. The arrest report report contained her address… which was Gracie Mansion. In other words, not remotely a secret. The tweet did not threaten her.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think you can: It's called the national guard.

Nope. Not without the help of the governor. And, they're really badly equipped to do everything NYPD does.

How about seizing NYPD assets and calling in the National Guard after removing everyone, collecting their data in a massive database so that they get blackmarked wherever else they would go for employment? I guess there would be an inherent risk of such a draconian policy, considering it was the American MO in Iraq, but then again, that's Iraq and this is America. Just a thought.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just an empty threat either. It's happened numerous times in NYC when the mayor or city council has attempted to reign in the NYPD, they simply stop responding to calls for service and then blame it on the politicians. Even if it doesn't lead to an uptick in crime, it still angers voters that police won't respond to their calls and they take it out at the polls.

It's happened in Minneapolis as well after the George Floyd. The solution to this is either: - setup a second security force to gradually replace them or - subdivide the coverage map into different districts, suss out the districts with poor performing management, then merge the territories of bad areas under the management of good areas or - subdivide responsibilities between violent crime, petty crime, and mundane…

Wait, cops in America aren't divided by roles? Huh, Til.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#169
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rhetoric around the means of production was initially in reference to slaves. Communism was an offshoot of the abolition movement not in reference to at the time minimal number of factories. And in that context people did abandon slavery. Even today factories aren’t the means of production, they don’t make houses that’s mostly people with hand tools. Nor do they make food or mine resources etc.

What point are you trying to make here? Marx’s writings were based on his observations of factories and industry in England at the time, among other things.

It just annoys me that people don’t understand the philosophy they expose.

Marx was not the origin of Communism or the phrasing around means of production. The context for his writing wasn’t simply factory conditions being so bad he created an original ideology from whole cloth. Which is why he was credited with the Marxism not Communism.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#170
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What point are you trying to make here? Marx’s writings were based on his observations of factories and industry in England at the time, among other things.

It just annoys me that people don’t understand the philosophy they expose. Marx was not the origin of Communism or the phrasing around means of production. The context for his writing wasn’t simply factory conditions being so bad he created an original ideology from whole cloth. Which is why he was credited with the Marxism not Communism.

This entire thread was in response to police stealing in the US, and someone responded referencing communists. Given they context, they were clearly talking about Marxism. The guy you responded to explicitly mentioned that. And then you go off on some other interpretation of the same words, clearly misinterpreting what they posted to argue some other point.
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