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Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

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Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#21

Post by dylan604 »

jebarker wrote: post #15
dylan604 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad it has to be this way. I have a telescope with a smaller telescope for tracking. I have the motorized equatorial mount. I have the gear to connect the mount and smaller scope with a camera to my laptop. I have the software to control them for precise tracking. I have the camera to attach to the main telescope. I have the stacking software. I don't have the luck of being free when the seeing is great, and hav…

A good place to consider for your property purchase is the area around Crestone, CO. It was recently designated a Dark Sky Sanctuary. It's near some great hiking, Sand Dunes National Park and good skiing. Also, it has the only legal funeral pyre in the USA. [1] As for the remote sites in New Mexico, I've looked into renting telescope time or remotely locating my astrophotography gear but I just feel like I'd be losin…

There's a group about 4 hours from Dallas called 3 Rivers Foundation (www.3rf.org) that has been buying up land in the county. The last time I was there, they were trying to get their campus (700+ acres at that time) designated as a dark sky location too. They are also attempting to increase their acreage to help keep it that way. There's a state park Copper Breaks that has the darkest skies of any state park (caveat being Big Bend is a national park) in the same area.

>I just feel like I'd be losing something

Spend enough cold nights outside, and you'll get really fuzzy to the remote concept! There have been nights where it was so cold, that once the rig was running, everyone just hangs out inside where it's warm with a periodic jaunts outside just to check on things.

Edit: I had to look up some details. At one of the post facilities I once worked, I met John Davis of Jimmy Neutron fame. He's a big astrophotography buff as well. While we were in the color session waiting for some renders to finish, he showed me his remote setup. He can log in and view some cameras to ensure it is safe to open up for observing. He can tell it what to observe in a set it and forget it manner. At the end, it is scripted to process the images and email it to him for review. That's exactly how I'd spend my Hollywood earnings too if I ever had any. I can't remember if he was the person I learned about 3rf from or if it was another client. But yeah, it's a pick your mouth up from the floor and wipe the drool off your face before you look like a fool. He said that's not the first time it's happened to him. Very cool cat.

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#22

Post by njarboe »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #13

I was only 12 when Shoemaker-Levy banged into Jupiter in 1994, so wiser minds or those with better memories may correct me. At the time, the leading theory for what killed the dinosaurs was still quite terrestrial - volcanos and climate change. There was increasing evidence for the meteorite impact theory, but a big block was “Space is big, outside the early formation of the Solar System comets and asteroids don’t ju…

Alvarez et al., 1980 [1] was the paper that convinced most geologists that the extinction was caused by an asteroid impact [source, PhD in Earth Science]. They found a layer of clay with very high iridium concentration at the K-T boundary in multiple locations. Some asteroids have high iridium concentrations relative to the Earth's crust so an impact of a large one would leave this signal all over the Earth.

Wikipedia has an interesting timeline of theories for the K-T extinction (now called the K-P which is not as cool a name), but strangely does has a link to this paper[1].

[1]https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.208.4448.109... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Cretaceous%E2%80%9...

Paper's Abstract Platinum metals are depleted in the earth's crust relative to their cosmic abundance; concentrations of these elements in deep-sea sediments may thus indicate influxes of extraterrestrial material. Deep-sea limestones exposed in Italy, Denmark, and New Zealand show iridium increases of about 30, 160, and 20 times, respectively, above the background level at precisely the time of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions, 65 million years ago. Reasons are given to indicate that this iridium is of extraterrestrial origin, but did not come from a nearby supernova. A hypothesis is suggested which accounts for the extinctions and the iridium observations. Impact of a large earth-crossing asteroid would inject about 60 times the object's mass into the atmosphere as pulverized rock; a fraction of this dust would stay in the stratosphere for several years and be distributed worldwide. The resulting darkness would suppress photosynthesis, and the expected biological consequences match quite closely the extinctions observed in the paleontological record. One prediction of this hypothesis has been verified: the chemical composition of the boundary clay, which is thought to come from the stratospheric dust, is markedly different from that of clay mixed with the Cretaceous and Tertiary limestones, which are chemically similar to each other. Four different independent estimates of the diameter of the asteroid give values that lie in the range 10 ± 4 kilometers.

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#23

Post by zmmmmm »

jebarker wrote: post #16

It seems fairly frequent that amateurs observe large impacts on Jupiter. Presumably they would be devastating impacts if they hit Earth. Is the reason we don't get them frequently on Earth because of the size difference (11X smaller than Jupiter) or we're somehow protected by location?

that was the most interesting part in the last paragraph to me:

> The gas giant is considered to play a big role in protecting the inner solar system from asteroids and comets by attracting and absorbing impacts or flinging potentially dangerous objects further out into the solar system

It's fascinating to think how many factors have come together to make life on earth so particularly viable. Even with this "protection" we've had major catastrophic events that nearly wiped out all advanced forms of life.

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#24

Post by beebeepka »

dylan604 wrote: post #11
thetomcraig wrote: post #10

It’s amazing that amateur folks can provide this much insight these days. I worked at JPL 10 years ago and setup a pipeline for amateur Jupiter astronomers to get their images to JPL/NASA. Basically JPL figured out that these people were consistently producing such high quality data, that NASA could take advantage of it for the Juno mission. Glad to see this in the news :).

It makes sense seeing that NASA/JPL only have so many instruments pointing at Jupiter at any time. That number is dwarfed by the number of amateurs looking at it on any night. It also helps that it's one of the easiest things to view.

What does one need to look at Jupiter, visible light or not? And how much would it cost to have a setup that I can feed some sky coordinates and enjoy the feed/s on a screen.

Any useful software that also happens to be free and/or open source? I just realized I don't know anything about this fascinating stuff

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#25

Post by Archelaos »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #13

I was only 12 when Shoemaker-Levy banged into Jupiter in 1994, so wiser minds or those with better memories may correct me. At the time, the leading theory for what killed the dinosaurs was still quite terrestrial - volcanos and climate change. There was increasing evidence for the meteorite impact theory, but a big block was “Space is big, outside the early formation of the Solar System comets and asteroids don’t ju…

A single event like the Shoemaker-Levy 9 impact does not tell us much about frequencies on its own. Besides, the original width of Shoemaker-Levy 9 was estimated to have been between 1.5 to 2 km.[1] The Chicxulub meteorite was estimated to have been between 10 and 80 km wide.[2] And it happened around 65 million years ago. So frequencies then and frequencies now might be quite different. That meteorite impacts happen from time to time on earth was nothing controversial. The question was, whether there had been a (very rare) hugh impact, large enough at the time of the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event and whether this was the only cause for all those extinctions. This is a very complex scenario and several of its details are still debated today.[3]

The most important evidence that an impact was the main cause of the extinction event was provided by the discovery of the Chicxulub crater in 1990/91. However, the investigation of this and other evidence is still ongoing. Contrary to popular belief, scientific debates of this magnitude are not resolved by a single ingenious theory or observation. It is the hard work of many, many people over years and decades that gradually changes and refines the web of belief of a scientific community.

[1] https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-meteors/co...

[2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1403.6391

[3] Wikipedia offers summaries of some alternative hypotheses, showing how complex the arguments are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_e...

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#26

Post by goodbyesf »

dylan604 wrote: post #5
trilbyglens wrote: post #4

This is totally going to be my old man hobby.

It's sad it has to be this way. I have a telescope with a smaller telescope for tracking. I have the motorized equatorial mount. I have the gear to connect the mount and smaller scope with a camera to my laptop. I have the software to control them for precise tracking. I have the camera to attach to the main telescope. I have the stacking software. I don't have the luck of being free when the seeing is great, and hav…

> Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well outside of light pollution.

I've always wonder how feasible it was to do astronomy by boat? That way you can chase clear skies. And I'd suspect there is almost no light pollution out in the deep blue sea.

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#27

Post by dylan604 »

beebeepka wrote: post #24
dylan604 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense seeing that NASA/JPL only have so many instruments pointing at Jupiter at any time. That number is dwarfed by the number of amateurs looking at it on any night. It also helps that it's one of the easiest things to view.

What does one need to look at Jupiter, visible light or not? And how much would it cost to have a setup that I can feed some sky coordinates and enjoy the feed/s on a screen. Any useful software that also happens to be free and/or open source? I just realized I don't know anything about this fascinating stuff

There's lots of really good options available now at some very affordable prices. There's quite a few reflectors in the 6"-8" size that are very small and easy to set up. Because the planets are so much brighter, especially the moon, than deep sky objects, all of the tracking and image stacking software is not necessary to start. There are scopes now that come with a mobile app and a built in camera.

Because I don't have hands on experience with anything other than my gear, I can't really recommend specific models. Celestron would be a good safe starting point. The magazine/sites from places like Sky&Telescope or BBC Sky at Night, will publish reviews of new gear ranging from "baby's first scope" to as much money as you have.

https://skyandtelescope.org/

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#28

Post by gattr »

beebeepka wrote: post #24
dylan604 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense seeing that NASA/JPL only have so many instruments pointing at Jupiter at any time. That number is dwarfed by the number of amateurs looking at it on any night. It also helps that it's one of the easiest things to view.

What does one need to look at Jupiter, visible light or not? And how much would it cost to have a setup that I can feed some sky coordinates and enjoy the feed/s on a screen. Any useful software that also happens to be free and/or open source? I just realized I don't know anything about this fascinating stuff

To capture material similar to TFA, a 5" diameter (127 mm) telescope would do (here perhaps a larger one was used, but in bad seeing conditions [1]), e.g. a cheap $100-$200 Newtonian. Add a reasonable mount (~$400) and a camera (one can start with a converted webcam, or get a dedicated model - typically sporting higher FPS, better sensors, also mono, etc.; those start at $150-$200). A lot of popular software for mount control, video acquisition, image processing is free (and often open-source). The best source of knowledge are astronomy forums, e.g. [2], [3], [4], and country-specific ones.

To see what's possible with amateur-grade equipment, go to AstroBin.com; e.g., Jupiter with 14" telescope:

https://www.astrobin.com/bzxs52/?q=jupiter%20c14

(Shameless plug: I have some Jupiter shots and time lapses in my gallery [5] as well. Sadly, no impacts caught - yet!)

Lastly, for lunar/solar/planetary imaging light pollution is not an issue - they're bright enough.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_seeing

[2] cloudynights.com

[3] stargazerslounge.com

[4] solarchatforum.com

[5] https://www.astrobin.com/users/GreatAttractor/

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#29

Post by dylan604 »

goodbyesf wrote: post #26
dylan604 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad it has to be this way. I have a telescope with a smaller telescope for tracking. I have the motorized equatorial mount. I have the gear to connect the mount and smaller scope with a camera to my laptop. I have the software to control them for precise tracking. I have the camera to attach to the main telescope. I have the stacking software. I don't have the luck of being free when the seeing is great, and hav…

> Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well outside of light pollution. I've always wonder how feasible it was to do astronomy by boat? That way you can chase clear skies. And I'd suspect there is almost no light pollution out in the deep blue sea.

it definitely gets dark out there, but you'd need a lot of stabilization to counter the motion of the waves if wanting to do imaging. For just viewing, it might be acceptable on a really large boat like a cruise ship. I've seen some footage from large container vessels that were not very long exposures that give an idea. humidity could also be an issue

Re: Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter

#30

Post by dylan604 »

njarboe wrote: post #22
JacobAldridge wrote: post #13

I was only 12 when Shoemaker-Levy banged into Jupiter in 1994, so wiser minds or those with better memories may correct me. At the time, the leading theory for what killed the dinosaurs was still quite terrestrial - volcanos and climate change. There was increasing evidence for the meteorite impact theory, but a big block was “Space is big, outside the early formation of the Solar System comets and asteroids don’t ju…

Alvarez et al., 1980 [1] was the paper that convinced most geologists that the extinction was caused by an asteroid impact [source, PhD in Earth Science]. They found a layer of clay with very high iridium concentration at the K-T boundary in multiple locations. Some asteroids have high iridium concentrations relative to the Earth's crust so an impact of a large one would leave this signal all over the Earth. Wikipedi…

Thinking back, I remember my dad talking about the asteroid killing the dinosaurs. However, my dad had not been in school for a long time by 1980. He didn't have a subscription to any science type magazines, and clearly no internet. So I'm now curious how he kept up. My dad wasn't one to read the paper at home, and he didn't have an office job affording him time to read at work. Obviously people talk at work, but it now has me thinking.

I'm guessing the killer asteroid was a theory for some time, and this 1980 paper was just the thing like you said.

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