I am amazed how stupid we people are. We really want to put things into only two categories - something is either good or bad. This applies to cholesterol and many other things. ROS are bad in some cases, and are a mechanism for protection in a lot more. It's good to have antioxidants before facing a pathogen, but not good when you're already sick. There are many studies showing that taking antioxidants before exercise negates its health benefits and many others. Also, really, I'm not sure what taking stuff orally really do. For example, I lot of people take collagen nowadays, but once in the stomach, it just get broken down into amino acids, so, it's not different than any complete protein. Unless you get antioxidants via IV or use some liposomal form, I doubt there's much effect of just concentrated nutrient that's not in its natural form, which naturally absorbable and not destructed in your stomach.
Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
61–69 of 69 posts
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#62> Common antioxidants, such as vitamins A, C, selenium, and zinc, can stimulate the growth of blood vessels in cancer when taken in excess. Is this to say that once you have cancer, these are bad, or that they promote the possibility of getting cancer. The second part is because we are continuously getting cancerous cells, but for the most part our immune system can deal with them before they become a problem.
Vitamin C is antiangiogenic, it does the opposite to promoting blood vessels, slightly confused at the contradiction.
Supplements like Tumeric have the same effect.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's astonishing how BAD basically all media reporting around science is. Anytime I see a headline about science I assume it's bullshit and investigation within to the actual science behind it, it basically always is.
If only everyone could be as good a writer as Derek Lowe or Ed Yong.
Exactly!
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/curcumin-will-wast...
>> More than that, a quick search will reveal that there are plenty of people ready to sell you curcumin tablets in every variety, for a list of ailments longer than most people's legs. Everything from Alzheimer's to upset stomach - curcumin is good for what ails you, apparently.
>> So what do you get when you look closely at the molecule and its activities? Well, for one thing, curcumin's stability and pharmacokinetics are absolutely terrible.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
In general, supplements should not be taken without good reason, because their availability in concentrated form makes it very easy to consume too much, like is also the case for refined sugar. Consuming too much of anything that is useful in small quantities, is either useless or harmful. When restricted to the same small quantities that are normally available from natural sources, there are no significant differenc…
This - the overconsumption of supplements can lead to problems. The problem isn't so much with a daily multivitamin as it is with megadoses of a bunch of different vitamins. I know it's only anecdotal, but I had a cousin that really got into one of those vitamin selling pyramid schemes. She got to the point she was taking dozens of different supplements every day and was one of the top sellers. She got cancer and die…
I have been, not sure if it counts as megadosing, but let's it does, megadosing D3 and C. I have struggled with common skin HPV that would not go away for over 3 years. Modest supplement doses did nothing, but when I increased D3 to 6,000 IU, C to 1.5g and started eating garlic, the warts just started disappearing on their own after some 2 weeks - including the most difficult ones (previously that would require freezing and even that could not eliminate some warts after multiple sessions at the doc). As far as I'm aware all of those are antioxidants. I guess that the invalid cell cleanup and virus cleanup are different mechanisms, but maybe just a guess - that if the immune system is too weak to clean up HPV on its own, it may also be more prone to let a cancer cell slip, maybe I would be better off to continue megadosing those... This kinda makes it a tough call. The thing about sugar is kinda related between the 2 - there's this study about how eating large amounts of sugar in one take will mess with the tumor cleanup mechanism - I noticed that I would often get more new warts after holidays when I consumed a lot of sugar.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
As usual, the title is not accurate, as there is no "fuel". What happens is that the antioxidants, including vitamin C, stimulate the tumors to grow blood vessels. The tumors with better blood vessels grow faster. So the antioxidants that are good for you are also good for tumors. Therefore they must be avoided whenever cancer is identified and you have to take medication that is bad for you, but hopefully even worse…
> So the antioxidants that are good for you are also good for tumors. I think the consensus is that supplements aren't useful as long as you don't have a deficiency (which is pretty uncommon in the west if you aren't eating particularly bad).
Sometimes they may be useful to treat a condition. I had common warts for years, they would never disappear on their own without freezing and there was one that was resistant to multiple freezing sessions at the doc. I have started taking stupid doses of D3, C and also eating garlic every day - the freeze resistant wart flattened to almost nothing in 2 weeks on its own, any small wart that pops up now will disappear in a month without freezing.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#66Dr. Brad Stanfield - one of the few medical professionals who've challenged Dr. David Sinclair about his promotion of NMN and Resveratrol - has a couple of well researched posts about N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) that are worth watching if you're into this stuff.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
This - the overconsumption of supplements can lead to problems. The problem isn't so much with a daily multivitamin as it is with megadoses of a bunch of different vitamins. I know it's only anecdotal, but I had a cousin that really got into one of those vitamin selling pyramid schemes. She got to the point she was taking dozens of different supplements every day and was one of the top sellers. She got cancer and die…
I have been, not sure if it counts as megadosing, but let's it does, megadosing D3 and C. I have struggled with common skin HPV that would not go away for over 3 years. Modest supplement doses did nothing, but when I increased D3 to 6,000 IU, C to 1.5g and started eating garlic, the warts just started disappearing on their own after some 2 weeks - including the most difficult ones (previously that would require freez…
lol I bet that works, you can also rub garlic directly on warts and other skin issues I’ve been helped by that in the last. On a separate note, 6,000 IU of d3 is nowhere near a megadose lmao, the study that supposed that it’s dangerous was wrong due to a typo, doses of 50,000 IU over 6mo have been tested and found to be safe. I personally take around 10-15k daily depending on sun exposure and once a week take 30k IUs, along with other things. I would recommend experimenting with 10k daily dose at least if you’re willing to check it out :)
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#68Here is the actual paper: https://www.jci.org/articles/view/169671
As usual, the title is not accurate, as there is no "fuel". What happens is that the antioxidants, including vitamin C, stimulate the tumors to grow blood vessels. The tumors with better blood vessels grow faster. So the antioxidants that are good for you are also good for tumors. Therefore they must be avoided whenever cancer is identified and you have to take medication that is bad for you, but hopefully even worse…
> but it is also obviously bad for your other blood vessels, so it can be used only to gain time until some other form of treatment becomes feasible.
As a nutrient/oxygen delivery network, in an adult human it should not be a problem unless one's injured I imagine? That's because the vessel network is fully developed, but I don't know if my intuition is correct on this one.
Re: Taking dietary supplements full of antioxidants could help cancerous tumors grow
#69I think that these results fit very well with the theory that cancer cells obtain energy from the fermentation pathway (as opposed to the oxidative pathway)
How so? It just says "We’ve found that antioxidants activate a mechanism that causes cancer tumors to form new blood vessels" which doesn't suggest anything about different metabolic pathways
Oh, it just speculation of course but they mention that many of these supplements have antioxidants, which is the opposite effect of what you would like to have. Given that the fermentation theory is correct.
In other words, you don't want to inhibit oxidation, you want to promote oxidation and inhibit fermentation.