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The Scourge of Airport Noise

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Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#81
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The center of Copenhagen has very different traffic composition than essentially every American city.

The context was "densification if done right could even make things quieter", and Copenhagen — at least the centre and inner districts — is generally considered to be doing things right. Slowly driven electric cars are slightly quieter than slowly driven petrol/diesel cars, but the greater improvement is the slowly driven vans, trucks, refuse lorries and so on. (Especially the electric refuse lorries! No more loud di…

> The context was "densification if done right could even make things quieter", and Copenhagen — at least the centre and inner districts — is generally considered to be doing things right.

Which is precisely why their traffic composition is different than that of American cities. I absolutely believe that the lowest-hanging fruit in many of Copenhagen’s streets are diesel delivery trucks. I do not believe that American cities have adopted the kind of forward-thinking policies that would have reduced other sources of traffic noise to the point where those are the largest contributors.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#82
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't work a block away. Oh wait: Almost NO ONE works a block away. Increased density means increased traffic, period. Has this equation been reduced by working at home? Sure. But it remains a fact of life.

I see you never lived anywhere with decent public transportation. Better public transportation infrastructure + increased density + parking is expensive + increased traffic = reduction in car usage over time. It's America's problem of its own making, you need to find a solution, just shoving more lanes for cars, more suburbs with single detached homes, is not solving absolutely anything. No, not every rural small tow…

I have lived in a city with what in the USA passes for "decent" public transportation: Chicago. And I used it. But a "city" like L.A. will never have sufficient trains, because it's a giant county masquerading as a city. It's unlikely that a citizen works close enough to home to do anything except drive there.

That's why the endless proselytizing about "Let's be Amsterdam!" is soooo tiresome. We're not fucking Amsterdam and never will be. I love Amsterdam, but it's just not applicable.

Also the vilification of houses is obnoxious and dumb. The USA is not "full." Some people actually want to DO things, like garden or have a workshop or a swing set or a kiln. That means they want a HOUSE, and guess what? It's a hell of a lot better than covering up every square foot of ground with concrete for high-density apartment blocks, preventing water from percolating into aquifers and intensifying the permanent drought that reigns over much of the west.

Not to mention the "heat islands" that endless densification creates, and the trees destroyed for it.

The endless bellyaching by fake liberals about "zoning" serves as a smokescreen for corruption: a handout to developers and a license to destroy already-residential areas, while giant dead malls with boarded up Macy's stores and vast concrete parking lots sit growing weeds. THOSE have already imposed costs on the environment and are already "high-density," so until every one of those is redeveloped (along with every defunct commercial or manufacturing zone) we should never be targeting neighborhoods with actual HOUSES.

Zoning is USEFUL. It allows people to choose the kind of neighborhood they want to live in. People who want density and walkability have downtown. People who want a house can choose neighborhoods zoned for houses. And some neighborhoods blend the two pretty effectively. But pretending that zoning is always a racist, elitist conspiracy is infantile at best and more often an excuse to destroy neighborhoods for someone else's profit.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#83
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you never lived anywhere with decent public transportation. Better public transportation infrastructure + increased density + parking is expensive + increased traffic = reduction in car usage over time. It's America's problem of its own making, you need to find a solution, just shoving more lanes for cars, more suburbs with single detached homes, is not solving absolutely anything. No, not every rural small tow…

I have lived in a city with what in the USA passes for "decent" public transportation: Chicago. And I used it. But a "city" like L.A. will never have sufficient trains, because it's a giant county masquerading as a city. It's unlikely that a citizen works close enough to home to do anything except drive there. That's why the endless proselytizing about "Let's be Amsterdam!" is soooo tiresome. We're not fucking Amster…

The cities where SFH neighborhoods are becoming more dense and the cities with abandoned shopping malls aren’t the same cities.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#84
This is really about the scourge of useless "communications."

California is the epicenter of this BS. They actually have announcements called "sigalerts" and "red flag warnings." The incontrovertible failure of those names is inherent in their meaninglessness.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#85
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Road noise is mostly white noise when indoors, and reduced to nearly inaudible by good windows. The really disruptive noise is caused by increased density - the apartment above with a subwoofer or an exercise routine that involves dropping weights, kids running up and down the hall shrieking, stuff like that. Landlords are supposed to address issues like that, but getting them to handle noise issues can be very frust…

Our community features a dedicated gym on-site, so it would hopefully be easy to convince the exercising neighbor to take it where it belongs!

You would think... During COVID I discovered that my upstairs neighbor had a regular aerobics time that apparently involved jumping or skipping or something. Weekday mornings, like clockwork, despite having a gym in the building.

There are definitely advantages to living in a condo or apartment, but the reality is that living in close proximity to a bunch of other people is going to be noisier. New condos tend to be better, but impact noise in particular still carries to adjacent units. Same with noise carrying from common areas like hallways.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#86
post #75
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t really a problem in modern buildings built from concrete to condo specs. It just happens that most dense US cities have much older buildings, or that people put up with low quality buildings built to rental specs because landlords are allowed to get away with it.

Concrete can be isolating between floors but it's common even for "luxury" construction to cheap out on build materials in walls, allowing way too much sound between units and between units and common hallways.

Perhaps so - but that's a function of what people put up with and buy anyway, rather than a defining feature. The building I lived in until recently did not have this problem.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in a city with what in the USA passes for "decent" public transportation: Chicago. And I used it. But a "city" like L.A. will never have sufficient trains, because it's a giant county masquerading as a city. It's unlikely that a citizen works close enough to home to do anything except drive there. That's why the endless proselytizing about "Let's be Amsterdam!" is soooo tiresome. We're not fucking Amster…

The cities where SFH neighborhoods are becoming more dense and the cities with abandoned shopping malls aren’t the same cities.

No citation. No evidence. No thought process. No credibility.

Where do you think dead malls are, exactly? I live in an SFH neighborhood that's threatened by developer giveaways, and there is a boarded-up Macy's and defunct Fry's growing weeds within two miles. And, to the west, there are stretches of decrepit small-commercial/industrial tracts awaiting rejuvenation. But NOPE! Let's let developers replace one house with 10 FUCKING UNITS, with no permits or review.

So... you're wrong.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#88

Kinda the same as 'please listen carefully as our menu options have changed' and 'we're experiencing higher than usual calls'. Or all the texts I get about remindeds of appointments followed by asking for reviews. It's like every channel is being abused to get us to do something. And I fail to pick out the important ones. Side note, with people wanting more dense housing, noise levels will go up.

Noise in cities is primarily driven by cars. Densification if done right could even make things quieter (e g. Reduce stroads and have more bicycles)

Having lived in super high density for 25+ years, this is really not true. Sounds like you don't have a lot of personal experience with that. Yes, "cars" are noisy and are a part of the noisescape in dense cities, but it's much worse to deal with public transportation (buses), dogs, people getting back home at night, workouts, remodeling, loud music, airplanes (high density areas often have at least one nearby airport), people fighting, sports celebration etc etc.

I live in car-ridden Suburbia now. When my relatives from the dense city visit, they are blown away by the silence.

Maybe things are different in Japan, but everything is different in Japan.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on a corner of 2 double-track, relatively busy streets. 5th floor. Right now traffic is pretty low, no horns honking, no douchebags with loud mufflers, no sirens. Window open, about 4m away from it at my desk, noise level is 45-55dB. Window closed, 25-27dB. Almost all of it is car noise.

5th floor? Sounds like you already live in high density housing.

High-ish. To the front, where my window faces, there's a small park and then more or less only houses until about as far as the eye can see (a few other buildings but not many, and not quite close.

In any case, yes - it's relatively dense and car noise is very high. When I closed the window I could finally hear my tinnitus against the backdrop of near silence. I didn't realise how much the street noise was affecting me either, even though it was constant.

Re: The Scourge of Airport Noise

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5th floor? Sounds like you already live in high density housing.

High-ish. To the front, where my window faces, there's a small park and then more or less only houses until about as far as the eye can see (a few other buildings but not many, and not quite close. In any case, yes - it's relatively dense and car noise is very high. When I closed the window I could finally hear my tinnitus against the backdrop of near silence. I didn't realise how much the street noise was affecting…

I don't really see a point in complaining about street noise with open windows/doors. You can close them and if you had not been living in an apartment you could have ones that do not pass a lot of noise. Nobody said there is no street noise, it just does not make to the houses because houses in general have means to mitigate it. Unlike apartments, where, even if you have got windows and doors with any sound insulation, you are still exposed to the noise coming through the walls and also people screaming much closer to your windows and doors. A source of noise 10' away from your window projects 100 times more energy on its surface than a source 100' away.
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