Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do? • Hacker News Board

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#41

Post by giraffe_lady » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

DebtDeflation wrote: post #35

banannaise wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, the political argument against is "If you do anything that gives even the appearance of curtailing police powers in any way, we will create the illusion of a crime wave, attribute it to you, and absolutely hammer every form of media with that narrative." (If, God help you, you manage to pass a law that actually curtails police powers, they'll generally act in open defiance instead of doing their j…

It's not just an empty threat either. It's happened numerous times in NYC when the mayor or city council has attempted to reign in the NYPD, they simply stop responding to calls for service and then blame it on the politicians. Even if it doesn't lead to an uptick in crime, it still angers voters that police won't respond to their calls and they take it out at the polls.

Shit NYPD publicly doxed and threatened the mayor's daughter. I've always known the police were evil but that made me stop and really wonder what sort of constraints municipal politicians are operating under. Like that is very very close to "gloves off" mafia type shit right out in the open. What kinds of threats do they make against those figures in private?

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#42

Post by paulmd » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #9

wahnfrieden wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is at best a harm reduction tactic. But as I said for limiting state powers specifically, it's usually not even that.

So what actual actions do you advocate for ordinary citizens to take?

the classic "aha, if you're really so oppressed, why don't you take productive action about it (in a society where all avenues of productive action have been foreclosed)" to you strategy

kinda like asking a black man what he thinks should be done about jim crow, if he's so smart. the tactic really does go way back

like yea oppressive power structures systematically foreclose, neuter, and dismantle any means that might be used to counteract or escape their effects, that's why they're oppressive power structures.

it’s galaxy-brain stuff to be asking the people inside to just wave a wand and dismantle it all, like I guess you think they could have just done it all along and simply chose not to? and “self-oppression” is of course a very real narrative that is pushed in these situation, it’s really your fault you can’t escape!

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#43

Post by maxwell » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

DebtDeflation wrote: post #35

banannaise wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, the political argument against is "If you do anything that gives even the appearance of curtailing police powers in any way, we will create the illusion of a crime wave, attribute it to you, and absolutely hammer every form of media with that narrative." (If, God help you, you manage to pass a law that actually curtails police powers, they'll generally act in open defiance instead of doing their j…

It's not just an empty threat either. It's happened numerous times in NYC when the mayor or city council has attempted to reign in the NYPD, they simply stop responding to calls for service and then blame it on the politicians. Even if it doesn't lead to an uptick in crime, it still angers voters that police won't respond to their calls and they take it out at the polls.

The real socialist shadow governments are local police departments.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#44

Post by olliej » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

This can be fixed simply: require police and the federal government to cover legal fees when successfully recovering stolen property, require them to additionally pay penalties to the victims that match the late payment penalties for fines and taxes.

Finally, require all the, ahem, proceeds of this theft to be set aside for paying the above.

That removes the profit motive and adds substantial downside to bogus theft.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#45

Post by riku_iki » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #9

wahnfrieden wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is at best a harm reduction tactic. But as I said for limiting state powers specifically, it's usually not even that.

So what actual actions do you advocate for ordinary citizens to take?

it looks like majority of ordinary citizens are fine with situation, otherwise some politicians would play this card already.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#46

Post by assimpleaspossi » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

I have a feeling there is more to the story than the two or three examples show. I also feel the same issues don't apply to the majority of cases but the article is written as if they do.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#47

Post by jackmott42 » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

jkubicek wrote: post #2

Severely limiting the scope of civil forfeiture seems like one of those political issues that everyone across the political spectrum can agree on. I'm constantly hearing horror stories like the ones in this article and I've never heard any reasonable defense of our current system. In fact, I've never even heard an unreasonable defense.

Get ready, because Scotus is writing such a defense right now.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#48

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #9

wahnfrieden wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is at best a harm reduction tactic. But as I said for limiting state powers specifically, it's usually not even that.

So what actual actions do you advocate for ordinary citizens to take?

[deleted]

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#49

Post by keneda7 » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #19

cmiller1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I feel like you are purposely misrepresenting what the article the other poster linked said. At least try to have some good faith discussion.

You completely leave out any reference to this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/98th-congress/senate-bill/948.

Re: Police Seized Innocent Peoples Property, Kept It for Years. What Will SCOTUS Do?

#50

Post by wnoise » Fri, Sep 01, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #16

mikece wrote: post #5

The key question is "What will SCOTUS Do?" There have been numerous cases where Civil Asset Forfeiture has been overturned, but only AFTER the wronged party sued for actual and punitive damages. I wish the law required that LEOs who steal people's stuff to be automatically criminally charged for theft upon the overturn of civil asset forfeiture (along with treble damages awarded to the wronged party)... but that woul…

>> I wish the law required that LEOs who steal people's stuff to be automatically criminally charged for theft upon the overturn of civil asset forfeiture At that point the defense would be Qualified Immunity.

Qualified immunity only applies to civil suits.