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Why I’m betting on Nostr

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Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#21

Post by unboxingelf »

JAlexoid wrote: post #17
unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

This isn't an elevator pitch, it's a standup line. I understand your excitement, but your elevator pitch fails to tell me why I should even look at it.

Sorry I’ll have ChatGPT write it next time.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#22

Post by ssivark »

unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

IIUC, the nostr communication protocol stands on its own, which should allow you to “bring your own payments” to the mix, or even engage without hooking up any payments till you see a compelling need?

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#23

Post by Brighthurst »

intotheabyss wrote: post #12
unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

Why would you use Bitcoin lightning when you can use Ethereum L2s?

From a theoretical standpoint, this answer could get very long, but the real answer boils down to the creator of the protocol prefers bitcoin.

On the theoretical side, I'd argue that bitcoin PoW is the best choice because it is more resistant to malicious actors. Assuming that a solution to the botting issue requires a small proof-of-work or fee to post, on a PoW chain malicious actors would need to control a large amount of energy inflow and hash power to support their botting operation. Whereas on a PoS chain, they simply needs a large pool of capital to be staked, which would give returns that can support their operation. This means that the attack vector is larger on a PoS chain than a PoW chain. This is also why the nostr protocol itself has a proof-of-work component. It's the simplest solution to two-generals problem.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#24

Post by drexlspivey »

evbogue wrote: post #15

I tried Nostr for awhile, and I appreciate that they're picking up where Scuttlebot left off. There are a few things that bug me about it that I wish they'd fix, or that some future protocol will solve. First, I want a replication strategy. Nostr messages get lost in time, and many of the clients end up just blasting an entire message history at your client. Because there's no clue in the protocol how messages are re…

> First, I want a replication strategy. Nostr messages get lost in time, and many of the clients end up just blasting an entire message history at your client. Because there's no clue in the protocol how messages are related other than a timestamp this also means you can fake timestamps and write fake messages in the future or back in time. This doesn't have to be an append-only log, but you need some idea of message order to avoid wasting bandwidth to get someone's timeline and detect when a message has been posted out of order.

nostr is stateless it’s just a streaming protocol for messages, there is no ordering (the same way there is no packet ordering in UDP). Looks like what you need is something built on top of it. Right now nostr relays are just that, real time message relays, they are not even supposed to store the messages.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#25

Post by unboxingelf »

ssivark wrote: post #22
unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

IIUC, the nostr communication protocol stands on its own, which should allow you to “bring your own payments” to the mix, or even engage without hooking up any payments till you see a compelling need?

You are correct on both points.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#26

Post by Canada »

unboxingelf wrote: post #20
intotheabyss wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you use Bitcoin lightning when you can use Ethereum L2s?

Ethereum’s recent move to Proof of Stake undermines the their ability to be decentralized and permission-less. If a validator adds a blacklisted transaction, they will be slashed [0]. Ethereum had an unfair issuance. That means the founders kept a pool of coins for themselves and have unfair control of the network, furthered by PoS. Ethereum is effectively a private tech company led by a CEO. They have a public roadm…

> If a validator adds a blacklisted transaction, they will be slashed [0].

This is incorrect, and your reference doesn't back the statement up.

Validators don't have to include any transaction they don't want to, just like Bitcoin mining pools don't have to either.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#27

Post by unboxingelf »

Canada wrote: post #26
unboxingelf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum’s recent move to Proof of Stake undermines the their ability to be decentralized and permission-less. If a validator adds a blacklisted transaction, they will be slashed [0]. Ethereum had an unfair issuance. That means the founders kept a pool of coins for themselves and have unfair control of the network, furthered by PoS. Ethereum is effectively a private tech company led by a CEO. They have a public roadm…

> If a validator adds a blacklisted transaction, they will be slashed [0]. This is incorrect, and your reference doesn't back the statement up. Validators don't have to include any transaction they don't want to, just like Bitcoin mining pools don't have to either.

They do not have to, but they risk being slashed if they add transactions that are not “correct” as per the network.

The link I provided shows this coercion via OFAC compliance.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#28

Post by troupo »

unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

> listen for a type of event, do something, emit another.

If everything is an event, and you can send any types of events, then you can trivially saturate the network, the clients, and the relays with bogus events.

> but are rapidly moving into uncharted territory - people are building music distribution apps, ai agents, and so on.

None of this is uncharted territory. Uncharted for Nostr, maybe. But time and again anything that comes out of crypto shows that people building this stuff have literally zero knowledge of what has been there in the real world before them.

Yes, including "we send events, and listen to them". Kafka alone is 12 years old this year.

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#29

Post by MuffinFlavored »

unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

> events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic.

what problem does this solve? how many people are publishing events (tweets) that are inauthentic? you need to be logged in via password + 2fa on twitter to post. if somebody can post from your twitter account on your behalf, they are logged in as you. i don't see how "PKI" on top fixes that?

Re: Why I’m betting on Nostr

#30

Post by unboxingelf »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #29
unboxingelf wrote: post #5

as a dev and nostr user, here’s my elevator pitch: everything is an event. events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. they’re human readable json objects. events flow over websockets so it’s “real time”. you can build literally anything on this platform - listen for a type of event, do something, emit another. it can all interoperable. we started with basic twitter clones…

> events are signed using pki so it’s easy to know who sent the event and it’s authentic. what problem does this solve? how many people are publishing events (tweets) that are inauthentic? you need to be logged in via password + 2fa on twitter to post. if somebody can post from your twitter account on your behalf, they are logged in as you. i don't see how "PKI" on top fixes that?

It removes trusting a 3rd party.
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