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Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

studyfinds.org

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Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#21

Post by zamalek »

selimthegrim wrote: post #7
zamalek wrote: post #3

Quitting is the best decision I have ever made (the worst decision I have ever made is starting). I started off by vaping - although based on recent research I wonder if that was at all safer than smoking - and working my way down to 0% nicotine fluid over a few years. That wasn't too hard (probably 4-5 days of mild cravings at most once I switched to 0%), the oral fixation provided by vaping was seemingly enough to…

Can you cite anything about a single drink a week?

https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...

Medical terminology gets confusing. "Chronic" to a layperson generally means "bad," but medically it merely means "ongoing." The idea that the protective effects of alcohol outweighing the risks are also under increased scrutiny and doubt: the risk of cancer is just too high. There are many ways to deal with a cardiovascular problem, but liver cancer?

At the end of the day you're making desperate deals with yourself - because drinking is definitely enjoyable. Let's assume that the revised Canadian recommendation of 1-2 at most a week was made due to being in the ballpark of the risk of walking out of your front door. Because humans are bad at conceptualizing probabilities, we fail to/don't want to realize that we are now carrying both risks as independent probabilities: P(Living∪Drinking)

Binge drinking (BAC > 0.08, 4-5 drinks) is playing Russian roulette each time. This is what I was doing: 1 6pack a month to get a nice mild buzz. Bad idea.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#23

Post by drewcoo »

> “Smoking typically comes before the mental illness. In fact, a long time before. On average, people from the data set began smoking at the age of 17, while they were typically not admitted to hospital with a mental disorder until after the age of 30,” he adds.

So smoking onset is measured by behavior initiation but mental illness onset is measured by first hospitalization?

This is just one of the pieces of motivated reasoning evident here.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#24

Post by drewcoo »

kochikame wrote: post #20
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, smoking is (at least early on, before your lungs rot out of your chest) pleasant. I would think the mentally healthy would enjoy it too. What would account for the selection effect here? Is there some smoking initiation mechanism that could account for it?

Smoking cigarettes is first and foremost an anxiety suppression mechanism. It’s no surprise that those given to overly worrying and fretting would smoke. To use your words, the mentally healthy don’t need it

> Smoking cigarettes is first and foremost an anxiety suppression mechanism

Citation?

I know Bernays convinced everyone that they were "freedom torches," but I suppose freedom might be first and foremost an anxiety suppression mechanism.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#25

Post by alienicecream »

peterlk wrote: post #10

Smoking increases risk of all cause mortality by 79% over non-smokers [0]. This means that your probability of dying by any cause in any time period is 79% higher if you smoke than of you didn’t smoke. If you’re not that worried about bpd or depression, perhaps you’ll consider all-cause-mortality. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9150905/

You say that with a lot of confidence, what is the causal mechanism?

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#26

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

kochikame wrote: post #20
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, smoking is (at least early on, before your lungs rot out of your chest) pleasant. I would think the mentally healthy would enjoy it too. What would account for the selection effect here? Is there some smoking initiation mechanism that could account for it?

Smoking cigarettes is first and foremost an anxiety suppression mechanism. It’s no surprise that those given to overly worrying and fretting would smoke. To use your words, the mentally healthy don’t need it

I'm not entirely certain I can agree with a definition of mental health that hints at the healthy being living spartan lifestyles of consuming only what they need and not an iota more. They never overeat? Never drink? They don't indulge in entertainment (simply not needed)?

Given how addictive smoking is, it seems like they'd only have to try it once. Which tends to happen in youth, and I don't think the high-schoolers are running around searching for anxiety suppression mechanisms.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#27

Post by j-a-a-p »

superkuh wrote: post #6
belltaco wrote: post #4

> Since this research shows that people hardly ever start smoking cigarettes after the age of 20, the team poses the idea that it could be beneficial to raise the age limit for buying them. Interesting, the recent tobacco age limit increase in the US from 18 to 21 should help.

I strongly disagree with this. If we're going to raise the age then it has to be across the board. 21 to be tried as an adult, 21 to be drafted, 21 to vote, etc. Disenfranchising legal adults because of possible 20 years* in the future crime (hospitalization for mental health around ~40yo) is very immoral. * See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13601 fig 1.

Smoking must be banned because it is an annoying habit. These people smoke where ever they want, on the street, on a terras while other people are eating, in busy shopping streets. It is hard to understand how screwed up some smokers are. In Belgium they had to make a law to ban smoking in cars if there is a child inside - imagine, what kind of person are you when you do that?! Not to mention pregnant women who smoke.

If people fail to behave at such a basic level, then democracy should jump in and fix it.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#28

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

When I was in California in the 90s, all the mental institutions allowed inmates to smoke. Basically whenever they wanted, they could go get a nicotine fix. Now, there was absolutely no caffeine allowed anywhere; all our drinks were decaf. So the only stimulant available was gross stinky tobacco smoke. I hated it. Inmates would come back inside with their clothes and bodies stinking, and we were in close quarters in an enclosed space.

I never understand why they allowed everyone to smoke as much as possible. It seemed detrimental to the drug regimens they put people on, and counterproductive, considering nicotine's nature as a stimulant. I noticed that since I moved here in recent years, there has been no opportunity for inmates to smoke. I can't recall the caffeine policies, though.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#29

Post by shkkmo »

itslennysfault wrote: post #18
shkkmo wrote: post #8

This study seems like it is just yet again confirming the correlation. Since they aren't performing any intervention, all they can do is statistical analysis to show the strength of that correlation. I am not convinced by the argument that people starting to smoke long before their first mental health hospitalization means anything since mental health problems tend to start long before hospitalization.

Yeah, I find it much more believable that people suffering from mental health problems are more likely to smoke (or do drugs other risky behavior) than that smoking causes mental health problems.

It's probably (as with so many things) both.

Smoking could easily both provide acute relief from mental health issues while chronically making those same issues worse.

Re: Smoking cigarettes doubles the risk of developing depression, bipolar disorder

#30

Post by [deleted] »

j-a-a-p wrote: post #27
superkuh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with this. If we're going to raise the age then it has to be across the board. 21 to be tried as an adult, 21 to be drafted, 21 to vote, etc. Disenfranchising legal adults because of possible 20 years* in the future crime (hospitalization for mental health around ~40yo) is very immoral. * See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13601 fig 1.

Smoking must be banned because it is an annoying habit. These people smoke where ever they want, on the street, on a terras while other people are eating, in busy shopping streets. It is hard to understand how screwed up some smokers are. In Belgium they had to make a law to ban smoking in cars if there is a child inside - imagine, what kind of person are you when you do that?! Not to mention pregnant women who smoke…

[deleted]
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