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The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

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Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#81

Post by pnut »

tristor wrote: post #22
BurningFrog wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad drivers should pay more for car insurance.

True. The problem is that telematics can’t tell you who is a bad driver and who isn’t. Instead they approximate bad driving by rate of acceleration, brake pressure, and speed. To these systems anyone who drives the way you are taught to drive in any serious course outside high school would be flagged as a bad driver, despite statistically have lower accident rates. The things that actually make people bad drivers are…

Whether due to someone being distracted, under the influence, a crappy driver, or a spirited, trained driver, I'd say someone driving fast and accelerating/decelerating hard is inappropriate behaviour on shared transportation infrastructure, and don't have a problem with the net being cast wide enough to discourage the practice.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#82

Post by bradford »

I've witnessed a general convergence towards monetization of user data over time. I'm bothered that the technical talent of our time is increasingly focused on this.

No one seems to like it or want it, but every company engages in it, because it's lucrative. Companies that don't do it are missing out on financial opportunity, and we know what happens to such companies in our market system...

I'm of the opinion that only policy/regulation can fix this issue (the playing field needs to be leveled across the board). I'm not sure what that looks like. Does anyone know of proposals/individuals that are being made in this area?

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#83

Post by radarsat1 »

ThaDood wrote: post #10

I mean, I know its not practical for everyone or every application - that being said I have made it my highest priority to go out of my way to not use services or products that require apps to be installed. Obviously I make exceptions for stuff I deem "required" but for coffee chains, fast food restaurants, grocery stores and other services if they need an "app" for me to use it. I just won't use it. Or I will go out…

Supermarkets used to have coupons that you had to cut out of the paper to get discounts on certain items. That was already bullshit -- if you can sell it at that price, please sell it at that price! Why the extra hoop of cutting up a magazine first?

Then supermarkets discovered bar codes. If you can convince people to carry around a barcode, suddenly you can track their usage patterns in exchange for a small discount.

Okay fine, but at least it's anonymous, right?

Then supermarkets realized they could get you to "activate" your barcode by going to a website. Hey, this way not only do we get their usage patterns, but we get data about them too! Demographics, etc. And people do it! Because of discounts.

Sure, some of us give fake info, but plenty of people just give their real names, addresses, and emails. Fantastic.

Well, lately I accidentally broke my barcode keychain thingy while locking up my bike (don't ask) and so next time I was in the supermarket I picked up a new one. Tried to activate it on my phone at the automatic cash but couldn't figure out how to log in to the site. Saw a link to the app but figured I'd look more into it later.

So later, I did that.. and discovered you can't log in to the site, because you can only activate the barcode by installing the app!

So, anyway, that's the story about when I gave up getting discounts at the supermarket.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#84

Post by Analemma_ »

dylan604 wrote: post #75
javajosh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, and I don't think the GP's argument is valid, but his goal is valid: retail businesses should not discriminate against people without phones or credit cards. There are lots of them, and it could be you at some point. There are lots of good articles about accessibility and how we all get old, etc. That same argument applies here: you may be well off, consider having a smartphone and several credit cards "normal…

Retail businesses that don't accept cash are also reducing their risk of being robbed. Prominently placed signs informing customers and criminals to the lack of cash on site means most criminals will go to the next place. It also helps keep the employees' sticky fingers from skimming the till. I can see why some might be enticed.

Yeah, I have been on both sides of this issue. I really want cash to work anywhere, but I have also worked retail and seen that cash is a giant pain in the ass for businesses. It has to be secured, transported, the employees steal it, and it means more accounting headaches. Whereas if all your payments are done through Square, this all goes away. It's not surprising to me an increasing number of businesses— especially really small ones like food trucks— are just doing away with it. I'm not sure what the solution is.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#85

Post by ROTMetro »

anonym29 wrote: post #60
ta988 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a similar one called TrackerControl (from fdroid) it is just incredible the number of trackers inside a single app. Some have over a dozen, this is getting out of hand.

I'd never heard of this and went to go try it. I very disappointed to find it required me to turn off my existing VPN and wanted me to disable DoH :(

It's probably using the VPN mechanism to grab traffic for inspection and can't do what it does without that.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#86

Post by stvltvs »

malfist wrote: post #4
theonlybutlet wrote: post #2

Been using DuckDuckGo's app privacy protection, some of the requests are just crazy, and from applications I haven't opened in months.

What does that do that using uBlock with a decent block list doesn't? Not trying to be contrarian here, genuinely curious and wondering if I should install it on my phone.

It blocks trackers in other apps, not just in its own browser.

It does this by acting as a VPN last I checked, so it wasn't useful in my case because it couldn't run at the same time as my other VPN.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#87

Post by bobim »

BurningFrog wrote: post #17
bobim wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies are very interested by your workout routine and how you drive your car, so they can adjust their offering specially for you… We can’t get laws banning this soon enough.

Bad drivers should pay more for car insurance.

We all have our moments, and we have the right that it’s forgotten when it happens. Data collectes is forever.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#88

Post by javajosh »

Analemma_ wrote: post #84
dylan604 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retail businesses that don't accept cash are also reducing their risk of being robbed. Prominently placed signs informing customers and criminals to the lack of cash on site means most criminals will go to the next place. It also helps keep the employees' sticky fingers from skimming the till. I can see why some might be enticed.

Yeah, I have been on both sides of this issue. I really want cash to work anywhere, but I have also worked retail and seen that cash is a giant pain in the ass for businesses. It has to be secured, transported, the employees steal it, and it means more accounting headaches. Whereas if all your payments are done through Square, this all goes away. It's not surprising to me an increasing number of businesses— especiall…

It's also expensive to have handicapped parking spots and ramps. You do it because it's right, not because it's convenient or cheap.

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#89

Post by dylan604 »

javajosh wrote: post #88
Analemma_ wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have been on both sides of this issue. I really want cash to work anywhere, but I have also worked retail and seen that cash is a giant pain in the ass for businesses. It has to be secured, transported, the employees steal it, and it means more accounting headaches. Whereas if all your payments are done through Square, this all goes away. It's not surprising to me an increasing number of businesses— especiall…

It's also expensive to have handicapped parking spots and ramps. You do it because it's right, not because it's convenient or cheap.

Not many retail places are building their own locations any more. Normally, they are just renting space. The things you mention are the landlord's problem

Edit: also, landlords are not doing these things because they are "right", they are doing them because they are regulated to do so

Re: The problem of creeping commercial surveillance (2022)

#90

Post by BurningFrog »

tristor wrote: post #22
BurningFrog wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad drivers should pay more for car insurance.

True. The problem is that telematics can’t tell you who is a bad driver and who isn’t. Instead they approximate bad driving by rate of acceleration, brake pressure, and speed. To these systems anyone who drives the way you are taught to drive in any serious course outside high school would be flagged as a bad driver, despite statistically have lower accident rates. The things that actually make people bad drivers are…

This argument assumes that insurance companies can't do math and/or don't care that they're losing money on this.

I'm 100% convinced they have both the math skills and the greed to know this is profitable for them.

I'm less sure it's actually happening. Only proof I've seen is the internet comment a few levels up claiming it.

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