81–90 of 203 posts
Very true. Wayland is now stable enough to be used in a lot of "production" environments and I've been using Sway as my desktop for years , and yet still, there is work left to be done: - Hardware support. NVIDIA support is spotty still. Easily the biggest issue IMO, though it's better than it was. - Network operation. X will always be better here because it was designed to be (at least with toolkits that can still t…
Very true. Wayland is now stable enough to be used in a lot of "production" environments and I've been using Sway as my desktop for years , and yet still, there is work left to be done: - Hardware support. NVIDIA support is spotty still. Easily the biggest issue IMO, though it's better than it was. - Network operation. X will always be better here because it was designed to be (at least with toolkits that can still t…
From my experience, Windows RDP has always worked way better, and when we were confronted with the need of having to do RDP access on Linux, we always found the more primitive VNC far superior.
But even that is the past. Today you can stream your entire desktop over the network with highly efficient modern video codecs, courtesy of the hardware encoders built into your GPU.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
No that situation is fine. The problems start if you don't want to use GTK or Qt, because in that situation Wayland provides only a subset of features compared to X11 (like not universally supporting window chrome rendering, so a native Wayland application needs to render its own window chrome which won't look consistent with other applications). I actually wonder what happens if you run a Gnome app on KDE, or a KDE…
> application which needs to render its own window chrome I understand this is absolutely subjective but I just hate this phenomenon so much...
Compare that to Xlib/XCB where you just create a window and that automatically looks consistent (this is also why XWayland is actually a really useful piece of software for applications that just need a GL or Vulkan context but no full-blown UI framework like GTK or Qt).
No one really cares deeply about what a compositor or low level windowing system does since it shouldn't be a thing you notice. Desktop OS'es have simple criteria and user expectations: they should work no worse than Windows or OS X, and that's it. Whether you need Wayland or not to reach feature and performance parity with commercial desktop OSes isn't very interesting to people, only that you actually do.
When I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077, occasionally the game crashes (hasn't happened often, but a few times), and when it does, the compositor fails until I kill the CP process. And while the compositor is failing, only the active window updates. The mouse cursor is invisible outside the active window. It becomes really hard to do anything. Until I kill the hanging CP2077 process.
From what I understand, my options are to keep the compositor active in full screen mode, which would hurt performance, because every signal has to pass through the compositor; or I could switch to Wayland which fixes this issue (though I'm not entirely sure how); or I just accept how it is.
Because I've got an Nvidia card, I'm sticking with X11 for now and accept the occasional crash. But once Nvidia support for Wayland improves, I'm switching.
No one really cares deeply about what a compositor or low level windowing system does since it shouldn't be a thing you notice. Desktop OS'es have simple criteria and user expectations: they should work no worse than Windows or OS X, and that's it. Whether you need Wayland or not to reach feature and performance parity with commercial desktop OSes isn't very interesting to people, only that you actually do.
Fuck that. I want to merge my window manager with my todo-list, and I want my work activity sectioned off from my personal projects. I want to pause my work applications when the clock hits 5PM, because otherwise they might knock a few frames off Counterstrike.
If you want a Windows-ish experience then that's fine, but don't project your lack of imagination onto the rest of us.
No one really cares deeply about what a compositor or low level windowing system does since it shouldn't be a thing you notice. Desktop OS'es have simple criteria and user expectations: they should work no worse than Windows or OS X, and that's it. Whether you need Wayland or not to reach feature and performance parity with commercial desktop OSes isn't very interesting to people, only that you actually do.
They shall work, much, much better than windows.
Working in MS Windows is a PITA.
The premise of the article linked from this one is "Wayland breaks your bad software", which is a funny way of saying it's incompatible with a bunch of irreplaceable software that people still use.
Well, I open a bunch of windows, and switch between them, raise, lower, and sometimes move or resize them with a window manager. So yes, my workflow comes from 30+ years ago.
But, Zoom screen sharing didn’t work in Wayland. And Nvidia breaks Sway. I’m very willing to believe those are failures on the part of the companies, not Wayland. However, in the end, I can have a working system with X, or a non-working system with Wayland. Me and my computer disagree as to which system is better I guess, and the computer won.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Network operation. X will always be better here because it was designed to be Excuse me, but BS. At least for anything of actual relevance. X11 networking works okay for stuff that looks like a classic X11 app. That's things like xcalc. Any modern text editor, web browser, or anything else is going to be dog slow. X11 has a bad networking protocol that's way too latency sensitive, and as a result is nigh unusuable…
> No, I'd say X11 wasn't designed to be run on the network [...] That's just wrong. X11 was designed from the ground up to be used on the network. It just happens that nowadays requirements are different from when it was originally designed. Running X11 on the network was quite a thing in Unis all over the world, where you could have dedicated dozens of X11 graphic terminal servers (tektronix used to make good ones)…