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USENET rises again?

theregister.com

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Re: USENET rises again?

#211

Post by lproven »

StevePerkins wrote: post #2

Am I missing the "rises again like a Phoenix" part? This article is just a brief description of what Usenet is, for people under 45 years of age. There's nothing in here about Usenet usage being on the rise, or anything like that. This article talks about Google Groups in the present tense, even though its Usenet hosting permanently ceased around 8 years ago.

I wrote the article. (I did not write the headline.)

The crux of the article is that the Big-8 board has reconvened and is active again; I spent a paragraph or two on that. That's what is back, and that is what the headline is about.

Google Groups is still current and comparing a couple of groups to my Eternal September feeds, they are in sync, so I call [[citation needed]] on that. If you can't back it up, I think it's disinformation you've picked up somewhere.

Re: USENET rises again?

#212

Post by lproven »

wackget wrote: post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

> You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider

Tell us that you didn't RTFA without saying that you didn't RTFA.

By the way, I wrote the article.

If you've been around since before Google as you claim, you should know to RTFM and RTFA.

Re: USENET rises again?

#213

Post by lproven »

dpe82 wrote: post #165
pyrophane wrote: post #4

The news here is that a board oversees the "big 8" Usenet hierarchies has been re-established and is actively adding/removing groups. "Rises like a phoenix" is a bit hyperbolic.

> "Rises like a phoenix" is a bit hyperbolic. If it weren't hyperbolic and a tad over the top, it wouldn't be The Register.

Hey.

I wrote the article.

Note, generally (not always) the editors and subeditors write the headlines, not the authors. They have a pretty good idea of what brings the clicks in, far better than me.

Re: USENET rises again?

#214

Post by Parker51 »

squarefoot wrote: post #128
layer8 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.eternal-september.org/

Just a warning: Eternal September's administrator doesn't give a damn about trolls and spammers posting through that server; every single complaint I filed went 100% ignored.

It's worse than that. They won't even take action against harassment of moderators, including their users that repeatedly submit obviously rejectable articles to moderated newsgroups, then reply with verbal abuse and profanity when rejected. The eternal-september admins tell moderation teams that it is their responsibility to deal with these users, not them. Our moderated newsgroup dealt with one of their users (lawfully, of course). No surprise that the individual had an anonymous identity that was a synonym for the devil.

Re: USENET rises again?

#215

Post by Parker51 »

pmarreck wrote: post #24

Sounds like a fun weekend project would be to implement the Usenet client/server protocol in your language of choice, and maybe start your own federated Usenet server(s).

It will take more than a weekend. This reminds me of that old joke about X-Windows:

"X Protocol is extensible!"

"So is a bucket of molten pig-iron."

There is definitely a lot of "intentionality" required to access newsgroups, let alone do more complicated stuff like moderate a newsgroup, when the answer to how to set it up in many environments is like that other old joke about a hotel where you have to make your own bed:

"Here's a hammer and saw, good night!"

Re: USENET rises again?

#216

Post by Parker51 »

One significant obstacle to a widespread return to Usenet is that the Internet has grown up, and has to behave more like the larger world around it. It's no longer a genteel, academic environment mostly shielded from harm from, and harm to, the general public. The following Techdirt article is an excellent condensed summary of how the world will eventually intrude on any ambitious effort to create, or re-create, an "uncensored" forum:

https://www.techdirt.com/2022/11/02/hey-elon-let-me-help-you...

Yes, the example is about a monolithic service like Twitter, versus something distributed like Usenet. But distributed services have to be hosted somewhere, and two contradictory themes from this discussion are:

- Usenet was more widely used when it was universally available (i.e., commercial ISP's ran news servers)

- Commercial ISP's no longer wish to run news servers due to legal liability and pressure from U.S. states attorneys general

Mom-and-pop server operators won't be as universal, and won't be able to afford expensive staff and lawyers to deal with legal issues.

Re: USENET rises again?

#218

Post by superkuh »

reaperducer wrote: post #210
superkuh wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free "10 GB" trial accounts available from usenet binaries providers can serve as a text only read/posting account for years. Like with usenet.farm

The free account on usenet.farm does not allow posting.

Ah geez. You're right. Thanks. I set up one for a back-up for when eternal-september is down but never tried actually posting on it.

Re: USENET rises again?

#219

Post by tptacek »

jjav wrote: post #206
tptacek wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read comments like this, I assume the person writing it didn't spend much time in conversations on Usenet. It sucked. Replies would randomly go missing. They'd take hours to arrive. Nothing was searchable or findable. Replies would expire out in some arbitrary amount of time --- every server did this differently. There was no meaningful formatting. Because there was often no moderation at all, groups would get…

> When I read comments like this, I assume the person writing it didn't spend much time in conversations on Usenet. You should not assume, does not lead to good conversation. I've been nonstop on usenet since the late 80s, still am. I used to run a site for my university. I was a heavy poster and reader through the 90s. My usage volume has decreased, but still sometimes post. Read daily. Usenet rocks. Wish it had mor…

These are all things you can do with HN, which has one of the simplest and most limited interfaces of all the Internet message boards. Just like with NNTP, you have to write software to do it, but it's straightforwardly doable. People have done several of them!

Re: USENET rises again?

#220

Post by ZWoz »

mindcrime wrote: post #96
reidrac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sign up for a free Usenet provider Sorry, but you make it sound like there are many. That allow posting, and free, I think I only know one.

Sorry, but you make it sound like there are many. That allow posting, and free, I think I only know one. It's been a while since I looked. I could have sworn there were at least a handful, but either A. I might be mis-remembering or B. the landscape might have changed since I checked last. That said, there seem to be quite few who offer cheap if not actually free access. And by "cheap" I mean, on the order of $10.00…

In the last few years some Usenet providers are closed their doors. Aioe.org was pretty popular and known, disappeared this year. One of few ISP-s still offering Usenet access for clients, Finnish Elisa, closed their usenet server 2021. Russian neva.ru was sadly closed (probably forced by goverment) 2021 (I group it with free servers, because it had read-only access open for everyone and some point allowed posting). Albasani.net disappeared 2020.

Some free servers are still around, but don't offer public accounts. Few places give account, if you ask. Eternal September is strongest-biggest still running and free service. Mixmin allows anonymous posting, but sometimes restricts it to fight with abuse. Google still relays groups to Usenet, though they have their own thing going and some servers are blocking posts from google.

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