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The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

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31–40 of 46 posts

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#31
post #8

I think Pirates of Silicon Valley makes it clear. IBM did not think there was much money in software and they were wrong about it.

Yes. There was a time in the early 1980s when a software-only company seemed unlikely to become big. Two examples I was close to: Interleaf. Interleaf was the first good commercial document processor.[1] Released in 1981. Ran on Sun workstations, quite well. Years ahead of Microsoft Word. The business model was that they would sell you four workstations, a server, and a laser printer for about $60,000. In my days at…

Wrong. Lotus 1-2-3 was launched at the beginning of 1983. They spent a million dollars on their launch, which told all the VC's that software was going to be a big business.

Ashton-Tate was large. Software Publishing (PFS: File) was large. Word Perfect was large.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#32

The scary thing is how many IBM "experts" from the quantum computing teams fled to quantum startups. I interviewed with some after interning at a FAANG, and as a female in tech with family members who have run tech companies, I like to think my BS radar is pretty good. It went off constantly with a certain "type" of "startup executive", and I noticed they were all former IBM or Intel. I'm not a negative person but fo…

I’ve seen these types, and their cousins at Accenture, etc move into non-tech sectors as CIOs, CTOs and other leadership positions only to wreck the place in 2-3 years. They’ll quickly fill the upper ranks with their kind and before you know it everyone is fighting for rank, scope, and head count. No one is competent enough to lead large scale technical projects or transformations; technical capabilities will erode and then frozen as operations are outsourced.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#33
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shhh…Jeff Dean is a God who designed the Perfect System, protobuffs - despite not being used by anybody but Google - are the One True Way, and setting company priorities via how well middle-management can win political battles to get inflated headcount is innovation optimal. Right? That’s why everybody is raving over how awesome Bard is!

Disturbingly, protobufs are seemingly used a whole boatload outside out of Google, despite me finding them personally meh :-) Golang seems bigger outside of Google than inside, too. (Like the nick, BTW. Wish i'd never sold off my TX81z)

Protobuf/ Thrift turn modules into basically legos by abstracting away the infra between functions to just data.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#34
As someone who's worked for big blue in a couple of countries and on two non-consecutive occasions ...

Its kind of interesting. It's such a huge organisation that there's room for multiple different streams, trends and directions all the time. There's also a massive disconnect between the people producing tech products, the 'research labs' and the services arms, the latter of which seem to have the focus of upper management more than any others.

The 'labs' are there AFAICT mostly to make the company look good and try to achieve headline-grabbing things like Watson. Very little of this feeds through to the trenches of the tech production lines, which tend to vary from the obvious corporate/enterprise software type setups (monstrously huge, cumbersome software which does things useful to enterprises but takes a long-ass time to adapt, gets its lunch eaten by startups, which then get bought, replace the incumbent, start to grow ... rinse and repeat), to large departments which resemble nothing so much as academia, complete with dingy corridors that haven't been redecorated since the 80s, which have miniscule output expectations and release new products with an absolutely glacial cadence.

Meanwhile the real corporate focus is on selling services and consultancy.

I feel somewhat fondly towards IBM, and I'm glad to have worked for one of the biggest names in our industry. They always treated me well (though make no mistake, they'll lay off thousands in a heartbeat if they think they can save a dollar). At the same time the organisation did feel a bit pathological, particularly last time I dipped my toes in, it felt like a giant in managed decline. Still vast revenues and enough money to cast about looking for lifelines, but ultimately directionless. Perhaps things have changed since 2015... perhaps the redhat acquisition has altered the focus. I'm guessing not though.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#35
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, as an ex-Googler, I have to say... uh... I don't know anything about what might have been going on there :-)

Shhh…Jeff Dean is a God who designed the Perfect System, protobuffs - despite not being used by anybody but Google - are the One True Way, and setting company priorities via how well middle-management can win political battles to get inflated headcount is innovation optimal. Right? That’s why everybody is raving over how awesome Bard is!

I’m pretty sure protobufs are used by more than just google. It’s become an industry standard. So your comment actually and quite ironically comes off as arrogant

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shhh…Jeff Dean is a God who designed the Perfect System, protobuffs - despite not being used by anybody but Google - are the One True Way, and setting company priorities via how well middle-management can win political battles to get inflated headcount is innovation optimal. Right? That’s why everybody is raving over how awesome Bard is!

Disturbingly, protobufs are seemingly used a whole boatload outside out of Google, despite me finding them personally meh :-) Golang seems bigger outside of Google than inside, too. (Like the nick, BTW. Wish i'd never sold off my TX81z)

Lately Bass is literally worth the $250 I spent for mine off eBay. It’s just flat out the beat techno bass like there is. It’s literally the only preset I’ll ever use because nothing can improve it, it’s just perfect.

A nontrivial fraction of all living people have heard this song at least once, and it’s 100% TX81Z at the heart: https://youtu.be/9EcjWd-O4jI?si=XgkC5avENfdTmlQF

(Also, yeah, to other replies, I now realize protobuffs are not to be joked about, I repent. Forgive me.)

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#37
post #3

When has IBM been considered on the rise? I thought they just reinvented themselves into services, sold off the "business machines", and now just suck at the teat of government contracts and consulting? They were considered pioneers in AI with Watson but have been leapfrogged in execution by OpenAI, Microsoft, and Google. So I ask again, what does IBM actually do?

Servers and mainframes that push the envelope every few years. About anything else idk, I don't see those parts of the company. Power10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power10?wprov=sfla1 No page for Z16 so here's the Telum processor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Telum_%28microprocessor%29... The wicked thing I got to work on is the Explorer memory chip. Crazy fast throughput and lane width, truly. 38Gbps for DDR…

Yep that's pretty much it. I have a massive amount of respect for the IBM systems buisness and the people that are a part of it. They are the last surviving computer company, and everyone I've ever met involved in that part of the business genuinely seems to love their jobs and have a real passion for what they do.

The rest of the company could all disappear and I don't think anybody would mind all that much. I've never heard of anybody passionate about working with or on anything besides the core systems. It all looks like consultancy and sales bullshit from the outside.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only other binary message format I saw were flat files with fixed bytes length fields, dtp/sftp in legacy banking systems. And many moved to first csv, then json/xml wherever they could. I feel there's no one trying to take that crown really.

ASN.1 wants to have a word with you!

Glad that someone else noticed that protobufs are very close to a carbon copy of ASN.1. If you don't have the .proto file you even see the .1.3.6.1.2.1 paths in protobuf files, just like you do without .mib files.

Even the integer encoding and tooling is very similar, just not quite identical.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disturbingly, protobufs are seemingly used a whole boatload outside out of Google, despite me finding them personally meh :-) Golang seems bigger outside of Google than inside, too. (Like the nick, BTW. Wish i'd never sold off my TX81z)

Protobuf/ Thrift turn modules into basically legos by abstracting away the infra between functions to just data.

They're a bit of an over-used hammer and people go looking for matching nails wherever.

JSON is wildly imperfect, and lacks types and schema enforcement... but if I have a stream or file of it I can read it with my eyes. Protobufs are opaque blobs without the schema and a pile of code. And they use generated code which is on the whole rather annoying and of varying quality. The binary encoding of protobufs doesn't really give them much of an efficiency edge, either; in this day and age there are some very well tuned JSON etc parsers. And if you're looking for efficiency, there are other formats better than protobufs (or thrift) for that purpose.

At Google I saw it rammed into places where it really didn't belong. Embedded systems, even, causing months of delays while people struggled to get them to work acceptably on a microcontroller class machine. Dogma.

But at least there we had better tools inside Google to work with them than I've seen outside.

TLDR they're probably more good than harm, but I don't think they're a universal good and not the universal answer for how to send messages "between things"

I work in Rust and use binpack, flatbuffers, and json, or hand rolled binary layouts (often using the binary_layout crate), depending on the use case. I don't think there's a universal solution.

Re: The Decline and Rise of IBM (1996)

#40
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There was a time in the early 1980s when a software-only company seemed unlikely to become big. Two examples I was close to: Interleaf. Interleaf was the first good commercial document processor.[1] Released in 1981. Ran on Sun workstations, quite well. Years ahead of Microsoft Word. The business model was that they would sell you four workstations, a server, and a laser printer for about $60,000. In my days at…

Wrong. Lotus 1-2-3 was launched at the beginning of 1983. They spent a million dollars on their launch, which told all the VC's that software was going to be a big business. Ashton-Tate was large. Software Publishing (PFS: File) was large. Word Perfect was large.

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