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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#231

Post by gabereiser »

sensanaty wrote: post #153
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

I'd hate to get a condescending review like that, hell I'd prefer someone straight up saying it's shit and not elaborating than trying to beat around the bush like this.

What part is condescending? Asking if you thought through another approach? Or asking for your findings?

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#232

Post by xyst »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

I typically find these people in corporate firms. The “I want to be friends with everyone” person.

Detangling their corporate double speak and no spine demeanor can become tiresome and counter productive.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#233

Post by johnnyanmac »

nemetroid wrote: post #215
johnnyanmac wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a spectrum of "like" and "didn't like", you know. Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review?

> Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review? This is irrelevant. Calling out specific parts as good is a great idea, if nothing else as clarification of what in particular it was that you didn't like. This is not what people are arguing against. In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", while the commu…

>This is irrelevant.

no, it's the entire point. Don't focus all on the bad, we're biased towards that and it's something we should always keep in mind.

>In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad",

exhibit A. Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? As a reminder:

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?”

We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. When there may not be a metric of "correct approach". This is especially highlighted with "not the way you would do it". Okay, who says your way is the best way?

If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#234

Post by trifurcate »

function_seven wrote: post #207
gretch wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like people to be straight with me But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Perhaps that person is trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water. “Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but can you give the SREs a heads up next time? They p0’ed on an expected traffic spike” The person is actually happy with you for fixing a bug. They don’t want to you take away that in the future, to n…

> But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Yeah, I do. And when I get genuine compliments, I like them! But it's obvious when someone consistently prefaces their statements with "softening" compliments. When they're "deploying" a "communications strategy." Talk to me like a real person, please. It will make it easier for those compliments to land when recipients know they're real. But if you're th…

I always have doubts about others' work and suggestions on how they could do it better. To avoid constantly dominating others, I either have to shut my mouth or try to be more accommodating in how I deliver my feedback. I do a mix of both, but if you tell me to be straight with you, then I'll be straight with you.

Especially in large corporate organizations where there are vast differences in how people communicate and take input, and you talk to too many people in a given day to really get close with any of them, it requires a handshake to know that I can always indicate my roughly unfiltered technical opinion to you and that you'll take it in stride, and if you feel strongly about it, you'll have the confidence to shoot my idea down without me having to give you an opening by posing my suggestion as a question.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#235

Post by mulmen »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #221
mulmen wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all sounds and feels nice but is divorced from reality. It is admirable to want to improve working conditions but you should consider the effect on your peers when you take that stand.

Divorced from the reality that you don't own the work corporations extract from you? From the reality that there are co-workers who aren't mutually planning your destruction? Everyone's experience is different, I guess. But I assure you there are places where co-workers are fine focusing on work and not making specifically you miserable.

I'm not sure what conversation you are having or who you think you are having it with. The world you have described doesn't exist. The point here is that taking a stand is admirable but personal. You should never force others to join you. You may desire a world in which unsolicited feedback has no negative consequence but we don't live in that reality.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#236

Post by graypegg »

neilv wrote: post #202
breakfastduck wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats even more patronizing imo.

Are you assuming that you're right?

I think it's about tone; it feels patronizing to me as well. "How does this approach handle {problem}?" is very socratic. You're asking a question meant to make them reconsider their idea in a very round about way. I think that actually comes off as assuming you're right in this conversation. I would imagine the person asking me that is being a snobby asshole showing off how intelligent they are. It's on the other person to try and piece together your wisdom you've delivered in cryptic socratic whataboutisms.

If two doctors are having a conversation about a treatment, do you think they have these roundabout conversations or do they just say "No, his liver is shot, he can't take that." We're professionals too. We should have enough mutual respect for each other to be upfront.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#237

Post by jpadkins »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

Great comment, love the effort. Next reply can you try to be more genuine and less patronizing?

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#238

Post by gabereiser »

confidantlake wrote: post #61
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

The phrasing seems confusing and manipulative. Did you like my approach or not? I would rather someone be straight up with me. If you don't like the approach or would have done it differently say so and we can talk about it. Save the compliments for when I do something you actually like.

I don’t know, what is your approach? What others did you evaluate? That’s what I want to know. It’s not a gotcha question. Some people seem to think it is because of their experience with a bad manager. I genuinely want to know what approaches you took, why those didn’t work, why yours is the right one, so I can defend you to the VP.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#239

Post by dahwolf »

ori_b wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

Me neither. I would reply with:

"Thanks that you liked it, I'm always happy with positive feedback so will share it widely within the team and towards my manager. When I get home I'll also tell my wife and put it in the family's group chat. Grandma's FB post should be up soon".

Don't lie to my face. I'm not a moron nor a child. You didn't like how I tackled it at all. You can just say that and point to tangible things where I went wrong. Any working professional should be able to handle that. And not just that, embrace it, it's a learning experience.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#240

Post by eweise »

camel_gopher wrote: post #206
eweise wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising…

My goto is “can you help me understand x?”

I guess any style could be interpreted many ways. If something was hard to understand, it sounds sincere but if you actually do understand then it could sound condescending. I guess with all this, context matters.
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