When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#201

Post by pluijzer » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #179

eweise wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising…

It depends on context, but I have found the opposite. "Have you thought about this approach" can come across as condcending. Of course I thought about that, it was the first thing I tried before the much more complicated solution that actually works. "Why didn't you do it this way" invites them to share the war story of what happened when they tried doing that.

But your example are cases where you feel strong because you have this war story. How about the cases where you just made a mistake?

That said, I never liked the 'sandwhich' method, saying; "Great effort. The result is horrible, like your indentation though."

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#202

Post by neilv » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:40 PM UTC

breakfastduck wrote: post #199

neilv wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road” If the context is that someone is speaking about something they think they know, and which would be acted upon, what about phrasing the concern as a question, like "How does that approach handle {problem}?"? (Not that I always practice this, because I don't. But probably it's generally best if I don't assume I'm right. Risks includ…

thats even more patronizing imo.

Are you assuming that you're right?

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#203

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #177

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

I strongly disagree and have worked in multiple environments where your actions would have harmed me personally. Your manager is never your friend. All relationships with management are adversarial. It’s like talking to the police. Do not volunteer information. You don’t know where other people are, always obtain consent.

> Do not volunteer information.

Well, I guess where you worked was either stack ranked or a generally oppressive atmosphere smothered in politics. Work should be a collaborative effort, even from the greedy billionaire perspective you hire 2 people to do twice the work. If you end up being 25% efficient something is wrong.

And this is a sort of odd angle to begin with: your work isn't private to the manager stack. Some CEO ordered a product manager who ordered a director who ordered your manager to order you to make that stuff. the CEO probably doesn't care about you, but it would be easy to track you down if they did care. Likewise, I'm sure any reasonable company has a log history that other co-workers can access

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#204

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #179

eweise wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising…

It depends on context, but I have found the opposite. "Have you thought about this approach" can come across as condcending. Of course I thought about that, it was the first thing I tried before the much more complicated solution that actually works. "Why didn't you do it this way" invites them to share the war story of what happened when they tried doing that.

>”Have you thought about this approach" can come across as condcending. Of course I thought about that, it was the first thing I tried before the much more complicated solution that actually works.

This is what I want to hear. Tell me you first considered it and ruled it out because of XYZ. No where am I saying “I think you’re incompetent and I would have done it this way”. On the contrary, I think you’re the right person for the job and I want to hear the assessment of the various other approaches (if any) and why yours fits the bill. It could be as simple as “well, mine does Y, others don’t”. Next time someone asks you about your approach, try not to assume they are trying to belittle you or get you into a “gotcha” situation.

I’m sorry that you had bad managers in the past and are hurt by someone asking about your methods. I genuinely want to know so I can defend the choice to the higher ups on your behalf.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#205

Post by ska » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

RobRivera wrote: post #200

eweise wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising…

I dont think it is good faith to label different communication styles as poor social skills. Many a DnD nerd have no problems communicating, but simply have a different communication style than johhny the quarterback. Part of diversity is understanding cultural differences as much as style. I love being told short, crisp, critical feedbacj that is data dense. Any overly verbose communication adds a layer of parsing a…

The social skill is having different communication styles, and applying them appropriately.

Only having one is a form of poor social skills.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#206

Post by camel_gopher » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

eweise wrote: post #157

ori_b wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising…

My goto is “can you help me understand x?”

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#207

Post by function_seven » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

gretch wrote: post #175

function_seven wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn't say any of that. I would like people to be straight with me. I try to be straight with them. Golden Rule and all of that, right?

> I would like people to be straight with me But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Perhaps that person is trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water. “Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but can you give the SREs a heads up next time? They p0’ed on an expected traffic spike” The person is actually happy with you for fixing a bug. They don’t want to you take away that in the future, to n…

> But you understand that people can genuinely like you right?

Yeah, I do. And when I get genuine compliments, I like them!

But it's obvious when someone consistently prefaces their statements with "softening" compliments. When they're "deploying" a "communications strategy."

Talk to me like a real person, please. It will make it easier for those compliments to land when recipients know they're real. But if you're the type to always lead with one, then they're all worthless. You're just a happy-talker. Your praise is empty.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#208

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #189

graypegg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of agree, I don’t want to work with a HR robot. I know someone that talks like this to non-coworker friends and it’s honestly just… offputting. I’m more into “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road”. And that opens up a two ended respectful conversation. Someone telling that to me, I’m not going to think they’re being an asshole. I’ve learned a lot from people stoppi…

> “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road” If the context is that someone is speaking about something they think they know, and which would be acted upon, what about phrasing the concern as a question, like "How does that approach handle {problem}?"? (Not that I always practice this, because I don't. But probably it's generally best if I don't assume I'm right. Risks includ…

>”How does that approach handle {problem}?"

This is good so long as it’s framed in a use-case. Like, we need to handle sending emails (simple example), How does your approach solve the need to send emails? Demonstrate it.

It’s important that we remember we are talking about praise, not criticism here. Something often lost on the rest of the commenters here.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#209

Post by mulmen » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

jjice wrote: post #25

master-lincoln wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the "correct in private" stance. How can others learn who did not do the mistake? The argument to have critique in private only is probably because of ego and honor culture where people feel personally attacked in topics where it's not about them at all but about the actions they have taken in a professional context with rules and expectations. But I fully agree on not talking to the manager, but p…

I think correcting in private makes sense if also paired with a no-blame oriented retro after the fact for everyone to know what happened and to brainstorm about preventative measure in the future.

How can a correction be private and blameless? In a 1:1 if you talk about what “we” did wrong you’re clearly talking about me.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#210

Post by stcroixx » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:49 PM UTC

tines wrote: post #45

user_named wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's absolutely horrible. It means you think the person you're talking to is dumb and can be manipulated with this phrasing. They see through you.

It's not about phrasing, it's about being genuine and also choosing to have a certain perspective which builds the other person up. There's nothing to see through.

It’s out of context. Not all adults need or want other adults to ‘build them up’. If you start with some unrelated positive thing, it will be recognized as a manipulation technique because context tells us there’s no other reason to raise the point.