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IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

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Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#81

Post by MaxikCZ »

tw04 wrote: post #68
MaxikCZ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know. My close relative works as infrastructure engineer at major automotive company, and about every 2 years they are buying new computation clusters (think tens to low hundreds thousands of cores, along with network and storage infra). Every time a public tender is held, and every time there are several companies promising to achieve required results with whatever hardware. Last decade I know of three differ…

It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that Cray would be unable to meet performance requirements and promises. They've consistently done so for decades in all manner of government and private institutions.

Cray was never selected. Either they didn't submit an offer, or their price was too high.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#82

Post by mushbino »

rqtwteye wrote: post #62

When will people learn that companies will almost always sell stuff as long as it’s legal and profitable. They have no morals. If we declined into a dictatorship they would sell equipment for total surveillance and oppression. If we don’t make it illegal to pollute they will pollute if they think it makes money.

Capitalism in a nutshell. It will always do this. It can't be reformed. Aside from the fact that we will eventually run out of resources to exploit. Infinite growth is just not possible.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#83

Post by Kon-Peki »

MaxikCZ wrote: post #81
tw04 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that Cray would be unable to meet performance requirements and promises. They've consistently done so for decades in all manner of government and private institutions.

Cray was never selected. Either they didn't submit an offer, or their price was too high.

I've sat in on plenty of B2B sales pitches, and am fairly certain that no salesman ever believes that you will actually run those tests. And if even if you did, that you would actually throw away a full year of integration work to go with the backup plan.

Plus, having seen/heard a lot about how salesman are employed - all too often their commission/compensation is locked in when the contract is signed. They get their money regardless of what happens a year or two down the road, and are thus incentivized to "misrepresent" performance and capabilities.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#84

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

"IBM CEO Arvind Krishna announced a hiring pause in May, but that’s not all. Later that month, the CEO also stated the company plans to replace nearly 8,000 jobs with AI.

Krishna noted that back-office functions, specifically in the human resources (HR) sector, will be the first to face these changes. In recent weeks, the company has opened up dozens of positions for AI-based roles to help develop and maintain these systems."

The mask has fallen.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#85

Post by n1b0m »

_lvbh wrote: post #71
n1b0m wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re referring to Iran then they’re Persian not Arab.

The Arab world refers to the Islamic countries in the Middle East I believe. Not any specific country

Iran is in the Middle East and and is also where the most recent and high profile protests against the forced wearing of the hijab have taken place. I’m pretty sure most Iranians wouldn’t take too kindly to being called Arab unless they are from the minority Iranian Arabs.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#86

Post by ptdn »

_lvbh wrote: post #71
n1b0m wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re referring to Iran then they’re Persian not Arab.

The Arab world refers to the Islamic countries in the Middle East I believe. Not any specific country

Iran is not considered part of the Arabic world and is a completely different branch of Islam.

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#87

Post by [deleted] »

4ggr0 wrote: post #79
quacked wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe people should take care to add "men and women at" before talking about companies. Companies and corporations are abstractions. There are real people taking these actions. - "Men and women at IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it" - "Men and women would sell equipment for total surveillance and oppression" etc. The reason I think this is important is that there's act…

Or to avoid using the gender binary we could just use "People/Humans at IBM" :) Agree otherwise.

[deleted]

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#88

Post by stonogo »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #83
MaxikCZ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cray was never selected. Either they didn't submit an offer, or their price was too high.

I've sat in on plenty of B2B sales pitches, and am fairly certain that no salesman ever believes that you will actually run those tests. And if even if you did, that you would actually throw away a full year of integration work to go with the backup plan. Plus, having seen/heard a lot about how salesman are employed - all too often their commission/compensation is locked in when the contract is signed. They get their…

Any sane HPC program has an acceptance testing phase in the delivery terms of the contract, with specific penalties (IBM calls them "considerations") for failing to meet the technical requirements. Sales teams in the HPC are extremely aware of this.

Blue Waters is a great example of throwing away years of work and pivoting to the backup plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Waters

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#89

Post by stonogo »

MrQuincle wrote: post #47

If this article is concerned about ethics at IBM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust might be an interesting read for people who haven't yet.

How many of those people still work at IBM, do you suppose?

Re: IBM promised to back off facial recognition, then signed a $70M contract for it

#90

Post by stonogo »

tw04 wrote: post #68
MaxikCZ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know. My close relative works as infrastructure engineer at major automotive company, and about every 2 years they are buying new computation clusters (think tens to low hundreds thousands of cores, along with network and storage infra). Every time a public tender is held, and every time there are several companies promising to achieve required results with whatever hardware. Last decade I know of three differ…

It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that Cray would be unable to meet performance requirements and promises. They've consistently done so for decades in all manner of government and private institutions.

No, they've consistently paid penalties for not doing so, especially during the decade or so their network stack tended to implode, taking the shared filesystem with it. They also benefited, during those decades, from an NSA program explicitly designed to fund US HPC OEMs in order to maintain American industry leadership in the space. I think it was a good policy, but it doesn't mean that Cray was hitting home runs right up to the HPE acquisition.
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