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How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

nippon.com

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Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#271

Post by bryanlarsen »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #249
neom wrote: post #202

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experi…

I'm not in SK but in the US. I decided long ago to not have children (I'm a man) along with my wife. Maybe we'll change our mind one day, but more than likely it won't. I honestly just don't think its my responsibility to contribute to some "greater good" of continuing to populate the earth. Humans survived just fine when the population of the Earth was half the size of now. This is extremely selfish and probably not…

Just as long as you recognize that if the worker/retiree ratio gets significantly out of whack, the demand for services needed by retirees is going to massively outstrip supply supply so inflation is going to kill any retirement savings you're planning on.

If you're directly or indirectly working on that problem somehow, you're probably doing far more good for future humans than you would just by having kids.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#272

Post by pacifika »

kypro wrote: post #267

I think in the West we would benefit if the default position was that it's shameful and selfish to not have kids. The way our welfare state is set up currently is such that we don't pay for our own retirement, but need the generations below us (hopefully a larger generation) to fund our retirement as we did for the generations before us. When we don't have kids the welfare system which we seem to value simply doesn't…

Or we could opt to care for our elderly and encourage compassion and empathy instead of shaming and stigma.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#273

Post by malauxyeux »

Hitton wrote: post #210
neom wrote: post #202

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experi…

I wouldn't worry to much about climate change, humanity overcame bigger problems. And if your in-laws want children so much, just tell them your concerns, they might be willing to chip in financially.

For me, the question isn't "Will humanity overcome?" I don't have a doubt about that.

Instead it's "What are the chances my kid – the individual – will lead a relatively peaceful, fulfilling life for the next 70-90 years?"

I don't know the answer.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#274

Post by bryanlarsen »

intrasight wrote: post #260
1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

The solution is fewer people - which is the direction they are headed. S.Korea has twice the population density of Germany for instance. So cutting in to half the current number seems about right. Honest question: who benefits from population growth besides developers?

Rapid changes are always problematic, no matter the direction. Society and environments can accommodate slow changes much easier than they can accommodate quick ones.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#275

Post by kelseyfrog »

rendang wrote: post #219
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Infinite growth as demanded by capitalism is not physically possible. If they wouldn't hit "the wall" now, they would hit it anyway in the near future. Maybe South Korea's situation should give all ageing rich developed nations something to reflect on and start making preparations for the upcoming demographic plateau/collapse and reform stuff like welfare/pension systems, instead of blindly kicking the can do…

You seem to be conflating economic growth with population growth. Also the concern is not that Korea's population is failing to grow, it's that it's failing to stabilize and will soon shrink significantly.

In my search to provide find examples of economic and population growth correlations, I came across two papers[1][2] which find no correlation. Thank you for changing my mind.

1. Barlow, R. (1986). Correlations Between Population Growth and Economic Growth https://hdl.handle.net/2027.42/100865

2. Barlow, R. (1994). Population Growth and Economic Growth: Some More Correlations doi:10.2307/2137634

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#276

Post by biohax2015 »

nradov wrote: post #222
neom wrote: post #202

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experi…

There are a lot of people who have children even though they can't afford it. Most of them muddle through somehow.

Nobody has any desire to muddle through life

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#277

Post by 1-6 »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #255
1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

Have the Gov subsidized the young with generous programs, perhaps a monthly fee for each child where at some level (2-3 children), one parent could stay home to raise them and collect a modest salary. Otherwise most young folks can't afford it.

The government is already subsidizing families with children. 700,000 won ($528) per month up to age of one, and 350,000 won ($264) per month up to the age of two. It's certainly a nice to have but not enough.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#278

Post by blululu »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #241
nradov wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the US also tried to help other countries such as the Philippines and Iraq which haven't done nearly as well. US aid doesn't seem to be the decisive factor.

It seems like post war japan and south korea saw a lot of investment into their manufacturing. Why didn’t the philippines see a similar level of investment at the time considering it was also destroyed and in need for rebuilding? Not destroyed enough relative to the firebombings of the japan home islands perhaps?

The Philippines saw a massive amount of American investment after WWII. I don’t have exact figures but it is comparable to South Korea. There are lots of differences. One Marcos was the most corrupt politician in history (in terms of total money looted). Two, Korea benefited from cultural and geographic proximity to Japan. As a former colony it was able to sell low cost products on the Japanese market and secure manufacturing contracts from Japanese firms. Three you might also make a point about the influence of Confucianism and Protestantism on Korea. To this day Korea is a very Christian country by East Asian standards (~30%) and the Chaebols are more Protestant than the overall population. Contrast with the Catholic Philippines and you can make a classic Weberian case of work ethic.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#279

Post by goethes_kind »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #254
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing your decision to not have children. I've made the same decision myself, but the 'can't afford to have children' has always confused me. Even after the point where contraception became readily available, people were having children with far fewer resources than anyone alive today. What I hear when people say 'We can't afford to have children' is an additional '...and maintain our current standard of li…

I think the reason is that people feel guilty if they can't provide their kids equal or better lifestyles than they got.

Yes, but at the same time you also don't want to rob a child of their childhood and adolescence. Who cares if by age 20 they aren't a virtuoso in violin and who cares if they haven't already won 5 random bogus academic awards?

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#280

Post by jjcon »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #221
Hitton wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry to much about climate change, humanity overcame bigger problems. And if your in-laws want children so much, just tell them your concerns, they might be willing to chip in financially.

> humanity overcame bigger problems Like? I tend to agree that humanity will eventually overcome but the question is also when and at what cost?

Bubonic plague, supereruptions, ice ages, malaria, smallpox, ozone deterioration - lots of these seem small now but that’s only because we’ve already overcome them
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