How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s • Hacker News Board

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#201

Post by gottorf » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:45 PM UTC

1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

To add some color: South Korea is somewhere between the size of Kentucky and Indiana (the 37th and 38th largest states), yet has over 51 million people, almost 15 million more than California, the most populous state. It has very few natural resources to speak of, and is roughly two-thirds mountainous, meaning most of the population is condensed in the few flat areas. In some ways, it's natural that the fertility rate would be so low, purely out of density, if nothing else.

It's honestly miraculous how far it's come. Within one lifetime, it went from a primarily agricultural economy to one of the world's largest and most industrialized. It builds (at times) half of the world's ships in tonnage, and its engineers and contractors are responsible for many of the world's tallest buildings.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#202

Post by neom » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experiencing this.

*We can't afford to have children, Climate change, We can't afford to have children

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#203

Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

gottorf wrote: post #201

1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

To add some color: South Korea is somewhere between the size of Kentucky and Indiana (the 37th and 38th largest states), yet has over 51 million people, almost 15 million more than California, the most populous state. It has very few natural resources to speak of, and is roughly two-thirds mountainous, meaning most of the population is condensed in the few flat areas. In some ways, it's natural that the fertility rat…

Indeed. Infinite growth as demanded by capitalism is not physically possible. If they wouldn't hit "the wall" now, they would hit it anyway in the near future.

Maybe South Korea's situation should give all ageing rich developed nations something to reflect on and start making preparations for the upcoming demographic plateau/collapse and reform stuff like welfare/pension systems, instead of blindly kicking the can down the road thinking growth is never ending.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#204

Post by CapitalistCartr » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

Smuggle people out of North Korea on a massive scale. I'm imagining scenes like a Mission Impossible movie.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#205

Post by danuker » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #203

gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add some color: South Korea is somewhere between the size of Kentucky and Indiana (the 37th and 38th largest states), yet has over 51 million people, almost 15 million more than California, the most populous state. It has very few natural resources to speak of, and is roughly two-thirds mountainous, meaning most of the population is condensed in the few flat areas. In some ways, it's natural that the fertility rat…

Indeed. Infinite growth as demanded by capitalism is not physically possible. If they wouldn't hit "the wall" now, they would hit it anyway in the near future. Maybe South Korea's situation should give all ageing rich developed nations something to reflect on and start making preparations for the upcoming demographic plateau/collapse and reform stuff like welfare/pension systems, instead of blindly kicking the can do…

The wall manifests as prices. When you barely make ends meet in spite of being a skilled worker, something is off.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#206

Post by grej » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

South Korea was among the poorest countries in the world - poorer than many countries in Sub-Saharan Africa as recently as the 1960s. Withing a single lifetime they transformed themselves into one of the most advanced developed economies on the planet with a madman (mad men) on their doorstep.

It’s natural that that kind of change will have some massive societal implications, many of which they are still sorting out.

Their birth rate is something that will require immense attention and work to begin to correct, but it’s worth noting what they’ve accomplished in getting to a place where they can afford to worry about that as one of their primary concerns.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#207

Post by deepsun » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #200

1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

Sounds more like SK is hostile just to middle and lower class families. No that that makes it right but that's the correct interpretation.

I feel like it's the same way in California.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#208

Post by firebirdn99 » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

[flagged]

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#209

Post by seanw444 » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #202

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experi…

My outlook is that the world certainly isn't getting better any time soon. It'll get a lot worse first. And who knows how long that will take. And I want to be young enough to enjoy time with my kids when they're adults. The complications and difficulties are worth it, I figure.

I say this as an American glossing through this comment thread though, so I don't know your circumstances.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#210

Post by Hitton » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #202

My wife and I have opted not to have children for reasons* and it's really sad how the conversation with the in-laws has moved from "you should have children because children" to "you need to have children because korea needs you to have children", and it's not just a passing comment here and there, the campaign to get us to single handedly re-populate SK is intense and sustained. I wonder if other couples are experi…

I wouldn't worry to much about climate change, humanity overcame bigger problems. And if your in-laws want children so much, just tell them your concerns, they might be willing to chip in financially.