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USENET rises again?

theregister.com

11–20 of 235 posts

Re: USENET rises again?

#11
post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

Sounds like you’re misinformed.

Text-only newsgroup servers are free. You only need to use/pay for indexers if you’re scouring many groups for specific keywords.

If you’re subscribing to specific text groups you don’t need to search an index for the whole net. You can just scroll to the top and read what you missed since last session

The barrier of entry is learning how to use a piece of software like Thunderbird. It’s no larger than email. If you figured that one out, you can figure out newsgroups too.

I remember when everyone was deriding “the internet” and “email” as being too cumbersome for an “average person” to figure out, having too many “hoops” to jump through to use it.

Thanks for the nostalgia, wackget

Re: USENET rises again?

#12
post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

A paid subscription is not required for the pure text aspect of Usenet. [1] It is required however to make use of the binary groups which makes sense as those servers use a tremendous amount of bandwidth even by today's standards.

[1] - https://www.eternal-september.org/

Re: USENET rises again?

#13
I wouldn't consider Usenet a social network.

I never liked Usenet, but when I was a teenager I posted some embarrassing, angsty, awkward messages in the alt.* space, so I was glad for many reasons when it rightly died off. If it rises, phoenix-like, I probably still won't use it. And if those messages (which I have searched for since) are recovered, I'll blame it on that one guy in Florida who has my same name.

Re: USENET rises again?

#14
post #9

I miss Usenet a lot, but the current state of play for "newsgroups" (sites like this, and Reddit) is way, way better than Usenet was. It's hard to see a real reason to bring it back.

I agree, the alternatives are mostly better...except for the interface. I'm not saying that Usenet was great, but damn Reddit is such an ugly site. I actually can't bear to look at it. Hackernews is pretty nicely designed though.

Re: USENET rises again?

#15
post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

The article links to a free Usenet provider. I'm sure there are others also.

The purpose for a PAID Usenet provider is for hosting binaries (i.e. piracy). You're paying someone for the bandwidth, and ignore or deal with the DMCA takedown notices. There is little to no reason to have a paid Usenet account just to read or post on pure text forums, and NOT download porn or other pirated content.

That was really one of the two things that killed Usenet in the 2000's. One was the rise of phpBB forums, and then Reddit. The other was the seediness of the Usenet binaries scene. As the "legit" users migrated to web-based forums, the pirates made up a larger and larger portion of those staying behind, and eventually the network effort flowed in reverse until critical mass was lost.

I deeply miss that old Usenet culture of the 1990's. In comparison to HN and especially Reddit, Usenet was far less reverent, frumpy, and up-its-own-ass politically and socially. At the same time, it's impossible to try to recreate that on a forum today, without it breaking down into nothing but alt-right hate speech. The 1990's was a fun and quirky little period of Internet sanity, made possible only by how small and outside the mainstream the Internet still was.

Re: USENET rises again?

#16
post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

The "high" barrier to entry does act as a filter today, but I should add that in the 1990s, it was considered relatively easy, not so different from using email; it's only with the existence of modern social networks that the access steps seem relatively difficult.

P.S. For many Usenet groups, you don't need to pay anything to get access.

Re: USENET rises again?

#18
I was in an AI conference yesterday, and there was a bunch of discussion in the chat about Slack channels, Discord servers, etc. So I was literally just lamenting the state of shared discussion forums, and commented that we all need to go back to Usenet and drop all these lame "walled garden" proprietary forums.

I'd like to tell people "install Thunderbird, sign up for a free Usenet provider, and join comp.ai, comp.misc, etc and have fun." But I'm a bit leery of encouraging people to do that since I'm not sure what the state of spam being sent to the various Usenet groups is, or how providers are handling spam filtering (if at all).

That said, there's definitely a place for NNTP / Usenet. It might take some work to fix up some issues, but it would be great to see vibrant / fruitful discussions via Usenet again.

Re: USENET rises again?

#19
post #5

As a programmer of over 30 years I still have never used Usenet and the reason is the barrier to entry. There is way too much friction. You need a paid (!) subscription to a provider, potentially a subscription to an indexer, plus client software. All of this to access what is essentially a pure text forum. Frankly I am not interested in jumping through hoops to access something which an "average person" would have n…

The article pointed out that Eternal September offers free subscriptions.

I'm not sure what an "indexer" is, such that you'd need to subscribe to it; is that some kind of online service like Deja News? I used to just download everything that appeared on the handful of groups that interested me, and store it locally. Then I could do local searches.

That "store locally" capability wasn't some bag of bash scripts I cobbled together; I thought all newsreaders could do that natively.

Re: USENET rises again?

#20
post #8

I never really understood how usenet works. There are usenet servers, and you post to usenet via these, right? Given there are O(100s) of servers (at least), I assume that the protocol between these servers is not full mesh, and there's some kind of small set of servers that participate in a mesh, and then followers that synchronize from them. How does this synchronization protocol work? How does one join the mesh? I…

NNTP descends from UUCP, the Unix to Unix Copy Protocol. Used to be that some businesses and universities configured their Unix machines to call other machines on their modems overnight (the rates were cheaper) and synchronize files. Think of it like a very slow, ancient version of rsync. You would post on your school's Usenet server, which would then sync with one or more servers overnight. And eventually (hopefully) your message would spread across the whole network. This could take days.

Some of the big timesharing services (think Telenet and Tymnet, eventually even AOL) out there ran their own servers, which a lot of smaller services dialed into.

How do you join the mesh? You met someone at Usenix or a similar conference and said "I'm sitting on a whopping 800mb of storage and a T1 line at my university. I'm tired of waiting a week to get the new comp.lang.c hotness. Think I could hook up to your machine for Usenet?" and they'd be like "Cool! Yeah, here's the dialup number. Try to call after 11pm so my boss doesn't know about it."

NNTP took this concept of syncing files and made it Internet native and specific to Usenet. But the architecture remained largely the same.

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