Dungeons and Dragons players of death row • Hacker News Board

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#11

Post by viraptor » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

It's not just the government. Do you trust every single link in that chain? The prosecutor, jury, judge, every lab worker, consulted experts, witnesses, forensic knowledge at that point in time, ... Every single piece of this puzzle can fail in a way that others will be happy to follow.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#12

Post by simonh » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

I have several reasons for opposing it.

One is that being an irreversible punishment, it precludes any possibility of remediating injustices. There have been many cases where it seems highly likely or even proven that executed prisoners were innocent.

The second is that particularly in the US it has become highly politicised. The possibility that condemned inmates might be found innocent, and the damage that does to the credibility of the system, has lead to the system doing whatever it can to obstruct and prevent investigations that might exonerate condemned prisoners, regardless of the strength of any evidence.

So for me it's not so much that the punishment is bad, it's that it seems to be extremely hard to set up a process around it that is fair, and the US in particular has failed to do so.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#13

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

DrThunder wrote: post #5

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Tell that to their victims. The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that, there are crimes that people commit where you can never trust them to be safe around people again. In that case, capital punishment is perfectly justified in my mind. The idea that keeping them in prison for life is somehow more humane is silly. The rest of the world is letting crime…

[deleted]

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#14

Post by hsuduebc2 » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

I have same opinion but I still want it to be abandoned. Price of even one life ended vlby mistake or corruptio is too big price to pay.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#15

Post by meany » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

Lots of good comments. For me the data on wrongly convicted inmates is a strong argument against the death penalty.

“ Since 1973, at least 190 people have been exonerated from death row in the U.S., according to the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC). A 2014 study estimated that at least 4% of those sentenced to death are innocent.”

https://innocenceproject.org/innocence-and-the-death-penalty....

We will never know how many innocent people have been executed, but even one is more than I am comfortable with.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#16

Post by umvi » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Some types of criminals (mafiosi, gang leaders, etc) can and do continue to run their criminal enterprises from within prison. This is a big problem in organized crime infested countries. You can't keep running your mafia if you are dead.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#17

Post by simonh » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

DrThunder wrote: post #5

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Tell that to their victims. The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that, there are crimes that people commit where you can never trust them to be safe around people again. In that case, capital punishment is perfectly justified in my mind. The idea that keeping them in prison for life is somehow more humane is silly. The rest of the world is letting crime…

Do you think that all or most the crimes condemned prisoners in the US are currently convicted of actually rise to the level where you agree that it's appropriate?

>The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing...

There is extensive evidence that the severity of punishment has very little to no effect on crime rates. It's simply not something criminals generally consider when actually committing crimes.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#18

Post by havblue » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #8

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

I'm going to step outside the political fight about whether or not the state should be able to kill people. I don't want to get into that. So, whether or not capital punishment should exists depends mostly on your theory of incarceration. If you believe prison and the law exists to remedy a wrong inside the person committing the crime, via rehabilitation, capital punishment serves no purpose. If prison exists as a ho…

There are more justifications for punishment though as deterrence and incapacitation are also discussed in the model penal code. Now, some certainly argue that deterrence isn't effective but I think it's a better justification than retribution.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#19

Post by notaustinpowers » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

DrThunder wrote: post #5

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #3

This is a heartbreaking story. I love playing D&D, and I can only imagine how important it is to these people in a setting like this. I hope the United States joins the rest of the western world and bans capital punishment soon--preferably yesterday.

Tell that to their victims. The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that, there are crimes that people commit where you can never trust them to be safe around people again. In that case, capital punishment is perfectly justified in my mind. The idea that keeping them in prison for life is somehow more humane is silly. The rest of the world is letting crime…

How much of the increase in violent crimes is not due to a leniency of capital punishment, but due to no effort in actual rehabilitation due to city/state/federal cost-cutting measures?

Privatizing prison builds an economic model that incentivizes creating repeat offenders. Withholding or making rehabilitation unattainable for the majority benefits the prison, but offers zero benefit for America as a society.

Re: Dungeons and Dragons players of death row

#20

Post by timmg » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

meany wrote: post #15

ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some crimes deserve no less. I can somewhat buy arguments about not trusting the government, but I can't buy arguments that capital punishment is actually bad.

Lots of good comments. For me the data on wrongly convicted inmates is a strong argument against the death penalty. “ Since 1973, at least 190 people have been exonerated from death row in the U.S., according to the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC). A 2014 study estimated that at least 4% of those sentenced to death are innocent.” https://innocenceproject.org/innocence-and-the-death-penalty... . We will never…

> Since 1973, at least 190 people have been exonerated from death row in the U.S...

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm wondering if you know if "exonerated" in this case means "found clear evidence that they were not guilty" or just(?) "the conviction was overturned." To me, those are two different things.

To be clear, I don't want anyone in prison (or on death row) that didn't get a fair trial -- even if they're guilty. But I do think there is a difference.