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Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

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Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#41

Post by flopriore »

aradox66 wrote: post #35

If you're starting from scratch and interested in python, walk through Miguel grinberg's mega tutorial from start to finish, implementing everything yourself along the way. It's very good and you'll have a thorough understanding of the basics at that point. I started working professionally building simple web apps immediately after working through that. When youre ready to go galaxy brained, "Designing Data-Intensive…

Thanks, I already know Python for basic scripts. This tutorial looks awesome to build simple web apps, thanks for sharing. I'm looking forward to studying "Designing Data-Intensive Applications", it truly looks like a gem

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#42

Post by mock-possum »

cryptos wrote: post #40

You asked for JS (JavaScript) and you got a lot of suggestions for books or other resources about that language. But I suggest to not spend too much time with JS and learn TypeScript instead. It will make your life easier, because the compiler helps a lot - especially if your projects grow. The official documentation is very good and should be sufficient for almost everything that you would ever do with TypeScript. h…

Do you really think it’s wise to start with typescript? That requires a compile tool chain, terminal commands, it adds a lot of strictness and some completely unfamiliar demands on a beginning coder that JavaScript avoids entirely.

You can just sit down and write JavaScript. It just works in your browser. You can’t do that with typescript.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#43

Post by mock-possum »

austin-cheney wrote: post #12

https://www.amazon.com/DOM-Scripting-Design-JavaScript-Docum... 1. If you want to be good at this start with a solid foundation. The compile target of the browser is the DOM (Document Object Model). 2. Read about accessibility: https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/ Understanding accessibility will influence why things are done in certain ways and will make clear the difference between presentation and dev…

Aren’t 1 and 4 a bit of a contradiction? The DOM is the document object model for a reason - modern JavaScript is fundamentally object-oriented. What alternative do you propose to OOP JS - functional programming? You can fake it, but why? Why not just go with the flow?

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#44

Post by TheHumanist »

p4ul wrote: post #31

I know you asked specifically about books, but I can’t help but recommend the two online courses that Josh Comeau makes available. I have found both the “CSS for JavaScript Developers” and the “Joy of React” courses to be absolutely phenomenal! Josh’s teaching style is exceptional, and the courses’ exercises challenge you to work just at the edge of your abilities. I cannot recommend these courses enough!! https://ww…

While I haven't taken either of his courses, his posts on his site are fantastic. I had forgotten about him. May end up grabbing one of his courses.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#45

Post by TheHumanist »

beeburrt wrote: post #34

css-tricks has good stuff: https://css-tricks.com/ And I like this Principles of Object-Oriented Javascript book by Nicholas Zakas even though it's a little dated (example: its claim that there are no classes in JavaScript) https://nostarch.com/oojs And I love everything by Kevin Powell: https://www.youtube.com/@KevinPowell edit* I want to add the The Odin Project has a ton of good material: https://www.theodinprojec…

Kevin is very wholesome and enjoyable. He's personally helped me with some stuff too when I was first learning and asking questions in the channel's discord server. Nice guy.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#46

Post by p4ul »

TheHumanist wrote: post #44
p4ul wrote: post #31

I know you asked specifically about books, but I can’t help but recommend the two online courses that Josh Comeau makes available. I have found both the “CSS for JavaScript Developers” and the “Joy of React” courses to be absolutely phenomenal! Josh’s teaching style is exceptional, and the courses’ exercises challenge you to work just at the edge of your abilities. I cannot recommend these courses enough!! https://ww…

While I haven't taken either of his courses, his posts on his site are fantastic. I had forgotten about him. May end up grabbing one of his courses.

Yes! Josh's blog posts are indeed excellent! And I definitely think that his courses have the same degree of thoughtfulness and insight.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#47

Post by austin-cheney »

mock-possum wrote: post #43
austin-cheney wrote: post #12

https://www.amazon.com/DOM-Scripting-Design-JavaScript-Docum... 1. If you want to be good at this start with a solid foundation. The compile target of the browser is the DOM (Document Object Model). 2. Read about accessibility: https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/ Understanding accessibility will influence why things are done in certain ways and will make clear the difference between presentation and dev…

Aren’t 1 and 4 a bit of a contradiction? The DOM is the document object model for a reason - modern JavaScript is fundamentally object-oriented. What alternative do you propose to OOP JS - functional programming? You can fake it, but why? Why not just go with the flow?

Objects in JavaScript are hashmaps, or structs in Rust, or various other names for the same things in whatever language. More specifically the DOM is a tree model no differently than a file system. It is arranged as an object because that is the data structure chosen by the original implementers, but it could be just about any combination of data structures. Back then the only opinions in JavaScript for data structures were objects and arrays.

That is not what OOP is. OOP is about expressing poly-instantiation and therefore allowing inheritance.

The internals of JavaScript are fundamentally OOP, such as the type system and distribution of DOM methods each expressed as prototypes. Most of that stuff you shouldn't be touching anyways. As far as your own code OOP is completely optional and requires far greater effort. Functions are first class citizens that can go absolutely anywhere with any kind of nesting in ways OOP structures cannot.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#48

Post by austin-cheney »

locallost wrote: post #27
austin-cheney wrote: post #12

https://www.amazon.com/DOM-Scripting-Design-JavaScript-Docum... 1. If you want to be good at this start with a solid foundation. The compile target of the browser is the DOM (Document Object Model). 2. Read about accessibility: https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/ Understanding accessibility will influence why things are done in certain ways and will make clear the difference between presentation and dev…

Not sure I agree with this advice. Most of webdev today is about actively avoiding the DOM. That's not to say you should not know what is below, but the rabbit hole can get deep. Accessibility is something that unfortunately is not high on the list of most people's priorities. You might say that's bad, but knowing it will not help someone learning the ropes to get an app done so they can learn more.

That is true, but only for attaining/retaining employment. Otherwise, the DOM remains the compile target of the browser. Your giant framework is a shallow abstraction over this with a massively opaque API. Developers like to put their heads in the sand and wish the world works differently, and that's fine for a while as it greatly increases career mobility. But, pretending and hoping aren't things that elevate your career to more senior positions. This is why we have things like imposter syndrome and expert beginners.

Re: Ask HN: Best books to learn web development?

#50

Post by locallost »

austin-cheney wrote: post #48
locallost wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree with this advice. Most of webdev today is about actively avoiding the DOM. That's not to say you should not know what is below, but the rabbit hole can get deep. Accessibility is something that unfortunately is not high on the list of most people's priorities. You might say that's bad, but knowing it will not help someone learning the ropes to get an app done so they can learn more.

That is true, but only for attaining/retaining employment. Otherwise, the DOM remains the compile target of the browser. Your giant framework is a shallow abstraction over this with a massively opaque API. Developers like to put their heads in the sand and wish the world works differently, and that's fine for a while as it greatly increases career mobility. But, pretending and hoping aren't things that elevate your c…

Late reply, but I don't disagree with that entirely. I don't think people should be totally ignorant about it, but you can be if you want to learn how to get something basic done (which is what this thread is about). I do however disagree in part because everyone tries to avoid it for a reason. It's a shitty "compile target". I can imagine a world where the canvas becomes a compile target and then all the accumulated DOM quirks become useless knowledge.
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