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Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

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Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#1
I was surprised to see how few mainframes Big Tech companies that handle a huge amount of transactions (Netflix, meta, google,...) use relative to legacy industries (banking, retail, insurance,...)

This makes me suspect that the real reason why mainframes continue to exist are due to industry inertia, vendor lock-in or even legacy code rather than any performance/cost reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#2
I would says "vendor lock-in or even legacy code". It seems to me that the systems that use mainframes have business continuity and stability as main goal. If it works there is not sense in migration. I think that for systems that use mainframes money is not the issue and on top of that migration costs would be huge.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#3
First of all, I find I kinda funny that you call banking, retail and insurance "legacy industries".

I would rather be without Netflix and Google, than banking and food ... but each to their own..

While some is inertia (mostly doing to rewriting truly large applications are hard and expensive), there is also the the point that most of those industries cannot easily handle "eventually consistent" data..

Not all transactions are created equally, the hardest usually have a set of requirements called ACID.

ACID in the classic RDBMS is not a random choice, but driven by real requirements of their users (the database user, i.e. applications in the business sense - and not the users as people). The ACID properties are REALLY hard to do in scale in a distributed system with high throughput. Think of the rate of transactions in the bitcoin system (500k/day with many, many "servers") vs. visa (500M+/day) - the latter is basically driven by two (!) large mainframes (with 50ish km distance) the last I heard of any technical details.

None of the companies you mention need to have strict ACID, as nobody will complain if different users see slightly different truths - hence scaling writes is faily easy.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#4
A mainframe is your own on-premises AWS.

(IBM should send me money for this tagline).

Seriously though, there are businesses where sending the data to a third party is absolutely impossible. You can spend a lot of money building your own private cloud... or, you can buy a mainframe, which will be cheaper, and if your industry is mainframe-friendly, there will be a lot of support and accumulated experience.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#6
The mainframe ecosystem (both hardware and software) is sufficiently different to modern commodity hardware that ports of large applications off the mainframe are highly risky or impossible. For organizations which adopted the mainframe way back when, the cost of staying on the mainframe is often lower than the cost to migrating to something else. It many cases, a migration is likely to mean rebuilding a decades-old codebase from scratch.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#7
Or perhaps some industries would rather have servers on premises than trust an external provider? Could be part of the inertia (mainframe being the old way of doing things), but if there is any safety, confidentiality, or trust issue, relying on servers you don’t own may be frowned upon.

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#9
post #3

First of all, I find I kinda funny that you call banking, retail and insurance "legacy industries". I would rather be without Netflix and Google, than banking and food ... but each to their own.. While some is inertia (mostly doing to rewriting truly large applications are hard and expensive), there is also the the point that most of those industries cannot easily handle "eventually consistent" data.. Not all transac…

legacy industry is sort of standard term not sure why you found it funny. It not meant to say they are less important.

From quick google: "Legacy industries are those that have been around for a long time. These industries dominate a specific market and have not always had a positive approach to innovative ideas."

Re: Ask HN: Why hasn't the cloud killed the mainframe?

#10
post #9
post #3

First of all, I find I kinda funny that you call banking, retail and insurance "legacy industries". I would rather be without Netflix and Google, than banking and food ... but each to their own.. While some is inertia (mostly doing to rewriting truly large applications are hard and expensive), there is also the the point that most of those industries cannot easily handle "eventually consistent" data.. Not all transac…

legacy industry is sort of standard term not sure why you found it funny. It not meant to say they are less important. From quick google: "Legacy industries are those that have been around for a long time. These industries dominate a specific market and have not always had a positive approach to innovative ideas."

"These industries dominate a specific market and have not always had a positive approach to innovative ideas"

Google is itself starting to sound a bit like that!

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