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How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

nippon.com

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Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#191

Post by speakfreely »

angmarsbane wrote: post #160
throwawaysleep wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher standards. The person you are replying to wants stable housing on some of the most desirable land in the world. The conditions for upper middle class people to have kids are exceedingly high by any standard.

I don't think it is an absurd or even high standard to want reasonably priced (30% of income) shelter (whether owned or rented) within a reasonable commuting distance (30 mins one-way) of a job. Am I truly out in left field on this?

You're solving for this with the constraint being your job. If you tried to solve this problem with family being the constraint and the job and financial situation being more variable, all of a sudden your options open up. Your constraints show your priorities.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#192

Post by chaostheory »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #14
chaostheory wrote: post #2

The only thing they left out in the article is what the effect of pollutants like BPA have on the birthrate. Currently, BPA, an artificial estrogen, is nearly everywhere from food, receipts, and now even clothing. PFAS, BPS, and a host of other pollutants are almost as widespread in many countries that experienced any decent amount of industrialization

This explanation may make sense if people were complaining about an inability to have kids despite wanting them. But physical infertility is not alleged here.

It affects physical fertility

https://www.endocrine.org/topics/edc/what-edcs-are/common-ed...

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#193

Post by positr0n »

pessimizer wrote: post #151
speakfreely wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you can see clearly from the sibling comments to mine, the problem is not that people don't have the means to have and support children. The problem is that they have a very specific vision for what it's supposed to look like, and that specific vision is extremely unaffordable right now. Various demographic, technological, and financial phenomenon have forced us to a point where the big suburban house, yard, fence…

In countries without proper health care, the lives of everyone lower than upper-middle class are unbelievably precarious. In the US at least, although there was a lot less healthcare 100 years ago, there were no procedures that cost you 10 years salary. Just giving birth in the US costs about $20K. It takes a day, and can be done at home by professionals that don't even need to be trained as nurses at 99% of the safe…

The first part of this argument has always made sense to me, but the stats don't seem to back it up.

Birth rates have declined just as much or more in the socialist utopias in Europe.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#194

Post by seydor »

thegreenswede wrote: post #184
seydor wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you korean?

No but I replied to your comment before it was updated I think. It only said 'life is maybe too good for kids anymore' when I saw it but now I see more text.

sorry about that

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#196

Post by throwawaysleep »

angmarsbane wrote: post #160
throwawaysleep wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher standards. The person you are replying to wants stable housing on some of the most desirable land in the world. The conditions for upper middle class people to have kids are exceedingly high by any standard.

I don't think it is an absurd or even high standard to want reasonably priced (30% of income) shelter (whether owned or rented) within a reasonable commuting distance (30 mins one-way) of a job. Am I truly out in left field on this?

You don't want just a job. You probably want an elite and interesting job, which for a dev to be paying out a large percentage of their salary is probably in San Francisco or Seattle or New York.

You could take a boring remote job with more average pay out in Kansas if family were a priority and pay off a house in a year or two.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#197

Post by somenameforme »

orochimaaru wrote: post #168
somenameforme wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no reason why women would ever want children. What's society providing them that they need to make this sacrifice? What do you think your future holds? If we are entirely realistic, I think in 50-60 years, and perhaps much sooner, we'll almost certainly be dead. On our way out everyone and everything we've ever known will also be dying. Best friends we'd thought would last to the end will fade and disappear l…

That's basically my point. There's probably half of humanity today (the women) who can help with this. And no one is making life easier for them if they decide to go through with it. In fact the men most of the time make it harder. Why should women help here? Why acquiesce to the needs of a society that doesn't care about their mental, physical and professional needs?

The above scenario is not just describing men.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#198

Post by thefz »

sho_hn wrote: post #93
kredd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed completely, but I’ll add another point. About 50% of my friends are university+ educated women of different ethnicities, but all living in first world countries. We’re also all in our late 20s or 30s, so it’s becoming a “now or never” kind of dilemma for some of them. We used to make “oh it’s expensive!” excuse until we started making decent money. Now that excuse doesn’t work, but there has been a significant…

See, the thing is that I cannot entirely shake the feeling that part of this stance is a certain laziness/complacency, essentially a lack of interest in any challenging activities. What I mean is: A lot of the people who come down against child-rearing for lifestyle reasons assign a lot of value to things they'd rather do instead because they provide "great experiences I'd miss out on because I won't have time or mon…

> See, the thing is that I cannot entirely shake the feeling that part of this stance is a certain laziness/complacency, essentially a lack of interest in any challenging activities.

This mentality of "I'm a mom, what's your superpower?" really irritates me. For what you know, I could be fitter, smarter, more interesting that you and embrace challenge every day of my life. But having a child would always put you a step above, because it's oh, so challenging.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#199

Post by 1-6 »

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate.

What's the solution?

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#200

Post by FirmwareBurner »

1-6 wrote: post #199

South Korea is hostile for new families. Unless you were born to rich parents, have a decent education with a good job (that's with a Multi-national or a Chaebol), own property in Seoul, find a partner, and survive the probability of divorce, having a child is impossible--let alone having two to meet the population replacement rate. What's the solution?

Sounds more like SK is hostile just to middle and lower class families. No that that makes it right but that's the correct interpretation.
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